IMPORTANT INFO ABOUT SMARTERMAIL (SM17.x) AND DECLUDE

Problem reported by Linda Pagillo - 12/11/2018 at 4:38 PM

Resolved

(SMARTERTOOLS TEAM... CAN YOU PLEASE MAKE THIS A STICKY? THANKS!)

Hey everyone! I have an important announcement...

Starting with SmarterMail Build 6911 (SmarterMail 17x), SmarterTools has changed their file format from xml files to json files. We discovered this morning that since Declude looks for a file that is no longer present starting in this version, if you install this version it will break Declude and currently there is no resolution. Our developers are already working with SmarterTools to find a resolution. If you have any questions or concerns, please let me know. Thanks!

Linda Pagillo
Mail's Best Friend
Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com
Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com

Authorized SmarterTools Reseller

Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller

132 Replies

Reply to Thread

Scarab Replied

12/12/2018 at 11:06 AM

Good to know. Thank you Linda.

I am assuming that if you are using Declude on a SmarterMail Incoming Gateway that is still on v16 or before then this file format issue isn't going to adversely affect anything, even if your primary SmarterMail installation is v17, is that correct? (And TBH this is precisely why we use separate Incoming Gateways, so we can keep them a version behind for situations like this.)

Looking forward to an upcoming fix.

Linda Pagillo Replied

12/12/2018 at 11:46 AM

Yes, this is correct. You will not have problems on 16x.

Linda Pagillo
Mail's Best Friend
Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com
Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com

Authorized SmarterTools Reseller

Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller

Richard Frank Replied

12/13/2018 at 8:40 AM

/me: 'Opens fridge, takes SM v17, puts it on a tray, closes door, waits on news from Linda'

Employee Replied

12/13/2018 at 10:50 AM

Employee Post

Hello all,

If you come across this issue with mail stuck in the Proc folder, then do the following to fix:

Stop the SmarterMail service
On the server, navigate to C:\Program Files (x86)\SmarterTools\SmarterMail\Service\Settings\Settings.json
Search for: Declude (there should be two matches)
Change true to false
Save file
Move all of the stuck EML and HDR files from the proc folder into C:\SmarterMail\Spool\SubSpool1
Restart the SmarterMail service

Thanks!

John Marx Replied

12/14/2018 at 3:35 PM

Any update on this. Our phone has been ringing every hour due to tons of spam coming through. Declude has been our saving grace for our customers from porn and click-bait that SmarterMail isn't stopping.

Linda Pagillo Replied

12/14/2018 at 4:00 PM

John, did you upgrade to 17x (Build 6911) from a previous version or was it a fresh install? If it is an upgrade, you may still have the .xml files that Declude needs to run. For example, my customer yesterday still had the mailConfig.xml in their SM MRS folder, but it was renamed. I called SmarterTools to ask if I could rename that back to .xml without any repercussions to SM 17x. They said yes, so that is what I did to get Declude working again. I realize this is not a solution. It is a workaround for now. I hope this helps. Thanks.

Linda Pagillo
Mail's Best Friend
Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com
Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com

Authorized SmarterTools Reseller

Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller

John Marx Replied

12/14/2018 at 6:11 PM

Linda, I just renamed the mailConfig and started the service. Fingers crossed. Thank you for letting me know! You rock!

Linda Pagillo Replied

12/14/2018 at 6:50 PM

My pleasure John. This way is unconventional, but it works for now. Fresh installs of 17x will not work because of the lack of the needed xml files. We are trying to provide a true resolution for everyone as soon as possible. Thanks for your patience!

Linda Pagillo
Mail's Best Friend
Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com
Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com

Authorized SmarterTools Reseller

Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller

John Marx Replied

12/17/2018 at 2:46 PM

Linda, I put the mailConfig back (renamed) and users are still calling. Do we need to re-install as part of the fix?

Linda Pagillo Replied

12/17/2018 at 3:16 PM

No. You should not need to reinstall Declude. Are you sure that it is starting up? You may need to disable it and re-enabled it in your SM admin interface.

Linda Pagillo
Mail's Best Friend
Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com
Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com

Authorized SmarterTools Reseller

Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller

John Marx Replied

12/17/2018 at 4:28 PM

It was disabled in admin and I re-enabled as well as restarted the server as well. Will keep looking around.

John Marx Replied

12/17/2018 at 5:17 PM

Rebooted again and now the service won't run so guess we'll wait for a more permanent solution.

John Marx Replied

12/17/2018 at 8:01 PM

Been digging and the error in the diags file is "FATAL ERROR: Cannot find SmarterMail configuration file ". This was an upgrade and I renamed the file earlier. Thoughts?

John Marx Replied

12/17/2018 at 8:08 PM

More digging. When you reboot your server and SamrterMail v17 restarts the mailConfig.xml is deleted. Thankfully I had a backup, copied in, and it's back working.

I understand SmarterTools is upgrading but tools that are utilized that work better than anything SmarterTools has should be worked with and not against. (just my humble opinion).

Linda Pagillo Replied

12/18/2018 at 5:49 AM

Thanks John. I was not aware that this happens when a SM 17x is rebooted. Thank you for the information. We are working as quickly as we can for a perm solutions. Thanks again for your continued patience.

Linda Pagillo
Mail's Best Friend
Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com
Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com

Authorized SmarterTools Reseller

Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller

John Marx Replied

12/18/2018 at 6:34 AM

Just glad it's back working. :) It's truly a great product as our users notice it when it's not working and don't when it is. A true sign of great software.

I know we are going to hold off on more updates / reboots as much as possible to not interfere with our user base.

Linda Pagillo Replied

12/18/2018 at 7:21 AM

Thanks for your kind comments! I'm very glad to hear that you like Declude!

Linda Pagillo
Mail's Best Friend
Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com
Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com

Authorized SmarterTools Reseller

Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller

David Fisher Replied

12/18/2018 at 7:31 AM

Here's a thought.. Change the MailConfig.xml to Read Only, maybe that way SmarterMail won't be able to delete it on a restart?

Adam Replied

12/20/2018 at 1:33 AM

I would love to know what is happening with SM17

There is a new way ST is displaying the download page of SM with a build number...but no official release email/blog/webpage about SM 17 being released.....so what is going on????

Richard Frank Replied

12/20/2018 at 2:25 AM

do you know how to create your own topic for this question?

echoDreamz Replied

12/29/2018 at 1:49 PM

Strange with SM17 being in beta for so long and the announcement a while back about SM changing their file structure that Mail's Best Friend didnt get on this a lot sooner.

Derek Curtis Replied

1/3/2019 at 8:26 AM

Employee Post

Hi, Adam. Check out this blog post for an explanation of the new build process (as well as some of the other changes that we rolled out last month): https://www.smartertools.com/blog/2018/11/1-new-smartertools

Derek Curtis

COO

SmarterTools Inc.

(877) 357-6278

www.smartertools.com

Adam Replied

1/3/2019 at 6:54 PM

All amazing news & changes Derek!

igorinuk Replied

1/14/2019 at 3:46 AM

Why it is not mentioned in SmarterMail version history?! SmarterTools must warn customers about such changes and bugs!

When ST removed Bayesian Filtering from SM, it was an awful action, but, at least, there was a warning. Customers could read and decide: install the new update or not.

Now ST turns off Declude (in addition to removing Bayesian Filtering), and even doesn't care to warn customers.

Matt Petty Replied

1/14/2019 at 7:18 AM

Employee Post

@igorinuk,

Declude still works just at the moment requires a work-around in order to function. The new SmarterMail changed how configuration was stored and this BROKE Declude. We are waiting for the developers of Declude to make the changes to their product in order to function with ours. The new SmarterMail was a very very long time coming and we've had news and community posts throw all around about it. Apologize for any misunderstandings and if you need help getting Declude to function you can send us a ticket or follow Linda Pagillo's Post on December 14, 2018 at 4:00 PM about the workaround.

Matt Petty

Software Developer

SmarterTools Inc.

(877) 357-6278

www.smartertools.com

igorinuk Replied

1/19/2019 at 3:49 PM

@Matt Petty,

Thank you for your answer. Please imagine that you are a customer, and you have lots of things to do and lots of software to manage. And only one of those apps is SmarterMail. Just one of many. And when you decide to upgrade it, you open SmarterMail version history page https://www.smartertools.com/smartermail/release-notes/16 and look at Important Notes at the top of that page. (It is a good idea to have those note, by the way. Thanks to a SmarterTools worker who wrote them.) So, you read them and understand, that you can update SM. You upgrade it and suddenly all emails stuck in Proc folder and you get 100s of complains from your clients.

You investigate that and find that Declude is not working. You think that Declude is the reason and spend more time. Because SmarterTools didn't warn you that they broke SM+Declude integration.

Will you be happy with that?

Note, that you answered me 5 days ago, but there is still no IMPORTANT warning about Declude at https://www.smartertools.com/smartermail/release-notes/16

Why?

Looks like you guys suppose that every SmarterMail customer must read your community forums, participate in beta testing, etc. It is not the case. Your software is useful, but it is only 1 of many apps your customers use, and it should not "eat" customers time, it should save it!

echoDreamz Replied

1/20/2019 at 12:36 PM

1. SmarterTools doesnt manage Declude, Mail's Best Friend does.

2. SmarterTools announced LONG ago that SM 17 was changing over from XML to JSON files and how they store stuff (this should have alerted the Declude devs that maybe they should be checking their product)

3. Mail's Best Friend should be testing their product with every new major release of SmarterMail (they do betas and I am sure ST would happily provide them earlier access), especially when ST has publicly stated, this build WILL change the fill structure

4. A good admin just doesnt blindly upgrade and hope for the best... You test, you test some more and then you test some more...

SM 17 has been out for nearly 2 months now, you'd think by now Declude would have been updated for it. IMO, no integrated (yet external) product should be relying on reading SM configuration directly, they should be using the API to read as much about the SM installation as possible vs. relying on the config files that could change any time, moved, names changed etc. Then you have to wait and hope that the external product updates their end, further delaying your work etc.

I'd assume to that the number of Declude installs is "low" vs. Cyren and Message Sniffer, so if it breaks, it is not a big deal vs. breaking Cyren or Sniffer.

With that said though, they should update the changelog page to state, do not upgrade to this build if you use Declude, or if possible, upgrade the installer to detect if you have Declude enabled in your SM config and give a warning about it.

Linda stated on the 11th of December 2018 that they just realized SmarterMail changed from XML to JSON files, which is odd... https://www.smartertools.com/blog/2018/01/18-SmarterMail-17-Introduction ST announced this change over a year ago...

David Barker Replied

1/21/2019 at 2:06 PM

For the past 5 years Mail's Best Friend has been working on producing a revamped Declude product (Declude Reboot) which is currently in Alpha testing. We will keep the community updated with progress.

Email : david.barker@mailsbestfriend.com
Web : www.mailsbestfriend.com
Office : 866.919.2075

Matt Petty Replied

1/21/2019 at 4:32 PM

Employee Post

Ooooh! I guess 2018/19 is the time for rewrites, exciting!

Matt Petty

Software Developer

SmarterTools Inc.

(877) 357-6278

www.smartertools.com

Richard Frank Replied

1/22/2019 at 1:12 AM

I'm looking forward to it David.
But 5 years for one project, that's a long time.

echoDreamz Replied

1/22/2019 at 4:24 AM

Yeah... 5 years a bit much...

Richard Frank Replied

1/22/2019 at 4:50 AM

maybe it's released together with mapi functionality :)

David Barker Replied

1/22/2019 at 9:35 AM

We agree 5 years is a long time. We are a privately held company and have funded the development with blood, sweat and tears. We are so encouraged by users like yourself that are willing to come alongside us and back the project financially to make this happen faster. @echoDreamz please give me a call on my number below so we can discuss how much you are committed to financially invest in the development and future of Declude Reboot.

Email : david.barker@mailsbestfriend.com
Web : www.mailsbestfriend.com
Office : 866.919.2075

echoDreamz Replied

1/22/2019 at 2:20 PM

David, if you need dev assistance, I am glad to help (assuming it is a C# environment you are developing in (free of course, I dont mind donating my time)). As for financing, if declude stops being free with the reboot and is a good product, doesnt eat CPU like candy, doesnt stall out processing large amounts of emails and backup the proc directory, we will be happy to look into purchasing and using it in our environment.

David Barker Replied

1/22/2019 at 2:50 PM

Thank you for your offer, much appreciated! As we are in alpha testing with Declude Reboot dev assistance there is not what we need right now... however we could certainly use some help with a utility to bridge the current Declude to continue working with with the new SM JSON until we can get Declude Reboot into production. Would you still be willing to donate your time for this much needed fix for our beloved SM/Declude community ?

Email : david.barker@mailsbestfriend.com
Web : www.mailsbestfriend.com
Office : 866.919.2075

Matt Petty Replied

1/22/2019 at 4:49 PM

Employee Post

A program or script run when Declude starts that makes a small version of mailConfig.xml containing only the server paths (and any other variables Declude uses) in XML format based off of the JSON file. This would be a way to do it without touching Declude code, assuming Declude can be setup to run a program/script before it boots.

Matt Petty

Software Developer

SmarterTools Inc.

(877) 357-6278

www.smartertools.com

echoDreamz Replied

1/22/2019 at 5:33 PM

Sure, as Matt stated, making a conversion between XML and JSON, JSON to XML is not difficult at all. This is assuming declude can launch and app when it starts. Though I assume you really only need an XML that reads a few of the values that Declude uses.

echoDreamz Replied

1/22/2019 at 5:33 PM

Would just need to know what values Declude is looking for/needs. As well as a test platform that has declude fully configured. Ill happily do it.

David Barker Replied

1/22/2019 at 7:22 PM

Great. This is what we believe will be a short term fix too. However there are many other XML files that Declude checks for information and would need to create those too, not just mailconfig.xml. We will also need to determine how often the script will run as to update the XML files based on changes in the JSON files. In the meantime we will get a list of files Declude needs from SM and setup the test platform. Stay tuned.

Email : david.barker@mailsbestfriend.com
Web : www.mailsbestfriend.com
Office : 866.919.2075

Steve Guluk Replied

2/4/2019 at 11:44 AM

I just got bit by this issue…

Updated our copy of SM on Jan 22 and was not made aware of this issue with Declude OR that we would be bumped to ver17 from 16 (Build 6956 (Jan 17, 2019)).

This issue should be a Sticky on the community forum or in other communications (Declude email blast?) so people know in advance of updating. Trial by fire, sucks.

What I found… The prior file “mailConfig.xml” that WAS in the MRS folder is now renamed and found in C:\Program Files (x86)\SmarterTools\SmarterMail\Service\mailConfig.old.xml

Renaming the file back to mailConfig.xml and putting into C:\Program Files (x86)\SmarterTools\SmarterMail\MRS then updating settings.json declude=true and restart SmarterMailService, did NOT work to allow decludeproc.exe to start as a service.

If anyone has a different experience, please advice.

Linda Pagillo Replied

2/4/2019 at 1:46 PM

Just an update... I logged into Steve's server to have a look. I believe the mailConfig.xml that he was using was corrupted. I replaced it with a backup he had and Declude spun right up. Please let me know if anyone else is having an issue and I will be happy to help. Thanks.

Linda Pagillo
Mail's Best Friend
Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com
Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com

Authorized SmarterTools Reseller

Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller

Steve Guluk Replied

2/4/2019 at 2:00 PM

Thanks Linda! Great product support as always.

It may have been related to the earlier post in this thread that says:

""For example, my customer yesterday still had the mailConfig.xml in their SM MRS folder, but it was renamed. I called SmarterTools to ask if I could rename that back to .xml without any repercussions to SM 17x. ""

I can see that should actually be the same folder that SmarterMail is currently creating the mailConfig.old.xml file (Program Files (x86)\SmarterTools\SmarterMail\Service).

** It's also important to know that when you start the SmarterMail service it backs up and then deleted the mailConfig.xml. So 1st start that service, drop in your replacement xml file and THEN start the Declude Service.

Linda Pagillo Replied

2/4/2019 at 3:06 PM

My pleasure Steve! Thank you for the correction and additional info! It is very much appreciated! :)

Linda Pagillo
Mail's Best Friend
Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com
Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com

Authorized SmarterTools Reseller

Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller

Linda Pagillo Replied

2/6/2019 at 3:05 PM

EchoDreamz, I sent you a pm on here yesterday, but I'm not sure if you received it. We have a server ready for you, but I had a few questions. Can you please check your pm when you get a minute? Thanks! :)

Linda Pagillo
Mail's Best Friend
Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com
Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com

Authorized SmarterTools Reseller

Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller

echoDreamz Replied

2/7/2019 at 11:08 AM

I responded to you Linda.

Linda Pagillo Replied

2/7/2019 at 12:02 PM

Thanks Chris. I received it and will respond to you shortly :)

Linda Pagillo
Mail's Best Friend
Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com
Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com

Authorized SmarterTools Reseller

Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller

John Marx Replied

3/25/2019 at 4:29 PM

Linda, any updates on when this will be working with 17?

Linda Pagillo Replied

3/25/2019 at 5:19 PM

Hi John. Not yet. As you know, echoDreamz has graciously volunteered some of his time and expertise to helping us build an xml to json converter. We have been chatting back and forth over the past few weeks. I will hopefully have more info for you all about this soon. Thanks for your continued patience. Also, Declude still works with SM 17x if you upgraded from a previous version of SM. It does not work with new installations of 17x. I'm not sure if you were aware. Thanks again!

Linda Pagillo
Mail's Best Friend
Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com
Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com

Authorized SmarterTools Reseller

Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller

echoDreamz Replied

3/25/2019 at 6:31 PM

Apologies on the delay, we've been swamped with work and SM-related issues that are keeping us quite busy as well as a few other development projects that are pulling me away.

John Marx Replied

3/25/2019 at 6:46 PM

We were running but every time we had to copy files back and sometimes "forgot" which meant several hours of email broken so had to uninstall.

Martin Schaible Replied

3/26/2019 at 5:43 AM

Now end of March, are we good to go for SmarterMail 17 (Build 7016) and Declude without troubles?

We want to setup a new server and migrating directly from version 15.x to 17 Build 7016.

John Marx Replied

3/26/2019 at 6:04 AM

Declude will work. We were running. Our problem is upon doing the update/restarting the web service the necessary file is removed by SmarterMail. As long as you remember 100% you are good. Being I don't remember 100% I've opted to wait so as to not upset my users.

Note: As Linda stated this only works for upgraded users and not fresh installs.