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IMPORTANT INFO ABOUT SMARTERMAIL (SM17.x) AND DECLUDE
Problem reported by Linda Pagillo - 12/11/2018 at 4:38 PM
Resolved
(SMARTERTOOLS TEAM... CAN YOU PLEASE MAKE THIS A STICKY? THANKS!)

Hey everyone! I have an important announcement...

Starting with SmarterMail Build 6911 (SmarterMail 17x), SmarterTools has changed their file format from xml files to json files. We discovered this morning that since Declude looks for a file that is no longer present starting in this version, if you install this version it will break Declude and currently there is no resolution. Our developers are already working with SmarterTools to find a resolution. If you have any questions or concerns, please let me know. Thanks!
Linda Pagillo
Mail's Best Friend
Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com
Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com
Authorized SmarterTools Reseller
Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
 

134 Replies

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0
Scarab Replied
Good to know. Thank you Linda.

I am assuming that if you are using Declude on a SmarterMail Incoming Gateway that is still on v16 or before then this file format issue isn't going to adversely affect anything, even if your primary SmarterMail installation is v17, is that correct? (And TBH this is precisely why we use separate Incoming Gateways, so we can keep them a version behind for situations like this.)  

Looking forward to an upcoming fix.
0
Linda Pagillo Replied
Yes, this is correct. You will not have problems on 16x.
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
3
Richard Frank Replied
/me: 'Opens fridge, takes SM v17, puts it on a tray, closes door, waits on news from Linda'
1
Employee Replied
Employee Post
Hello all,
If you come across this issue with mail stuck in the Proc folder, then do the following to fix:

  1. Stop the SmarterMail service
  2. On the server, navigate to C:\Program Files (x86)\SmarterTools\SmarterMail\Service\Settings\Settings.json
  3. Search for: Declude  (there should be two matches)
  4. Change true to false
  5. Save file
  6. Move all of the stuck EML and HDR files from the proc folder into C:\SmarterMail\Spool\SubSpool1
  7. Restart the SmarterMail service
Thanks!
0
John Marx Replied
Any update on this. Our phone has been ringing every hour due to tons of spam coming through. Declude has been our saving grace for our customers from porn and click-bait that SmarterMail isn't stopping.
1
Linda Pagillo Replied
John, did you upgrade to 17x (Build 6911) from a previous version or was it a fresh install? If it is an upgrade, you may still have the .xml files that Declude needs to run. For example, my customer yesterday still had the mailConfig.xml in their SM MRS folder, but it was renamed. I called SmarterTools to ask if I could rename that back to .xml without any repercussions to SM 17x. They said yes, so that is what I did to get Declude working again. I realize this is not a solution. It is a workaround for now. I hope this helps. Thanks.
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
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John Marx Replied
Linda, I just renamed the mailConfig and started the service. Fingers crossed. Thank you for letting me know! You rock!
1
Linda Pagillo Replied
My pleasure John. This way is unconventional, but it works for now. Fresh installs of 17x will not work because of the lack of the needed xml files. We are trying to provide a true resolution for everyone as soon as possible. Thanks for your patience!
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
0
John Marx Replied
Linda, I put the mailConfig back (renamed) and users are still calling. Do we need to re-install as part of the fix?
0
Linda Pagillo Replied
No. You should not need to reinstall Declude. Are you sure that it is starting up? You may need to disable it and re-enabled it in your SM admin interface.
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
0
John Marx Replied
It was disabled in admin and I re-enabled as well as restarted the server as well. Will keep looking around.
0
John Marx Replied
Rebooted again and now the service won't run so guess we'll wait for a more permanent solution. 
0
John Marx Replied
Been digging and the error in the diags file is "FATAL ERROR: Cannot find SmarterMail configuration file ". This was an upgrade and I renamed the file earlier. Thoughts?
0
John Marx Replied
More digging. When you reboot your server and SamrterMail v17 restarts the mailConfig.xml is deleted. Thankfully I had a backup, copied in, and it's back working.

I understand SmarterTools is upgrading but tools that are utilized that work better than anything SmarterTools has should be worked with and not against. (just my humble opinion).
0
Linda Pagillo Replied
Thanks John. I was not aware that this happens when a SM 17x is rebooted. Thank you for the information. We are working as quickly as we can for a perm solutions. Thanks again for your continued patience.
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
0
John Marx Replied
Just glad it's back working. :) It's truly a great product as our users notice it when it's not working and don't when it is. A true sign of great software.

I know we are going to hold off on more updates / reboots as much as possible to not interfere with our user base.
0
Linda Pagillo Replied
Thanks for your kind comments! I'm very glad to hear that you like Declude!
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
1
David Fisher Replied
Here's a thought.. Change the MailConfig.xml to Read Only, maybe that way SmarterMail won't be able to delete it on a restart?
2
Adam Replied
I would love to know what is happening with SM17
There is a new way ST is displaying the download page of SM with a build number...but no official release email/blog/webpage about SM 17 being released.....so what is going on????
3
Richard Frank Replied
do you know how to create your own topic for this question?
0
echoDreamz Replied
Strange with SM17 being in beta for so long and the announcement a while back about SM changing their file structure that Mail's Best Friend didnt get on this a lot sooner.
0
Derek Curtis Replied
Employee Post
Hi, Adam. Check out this blog post for an explanation of the new build process (as well as some of the other changes that we rolled out last month): https://www.smartertools.com/blog/2018/11/1-new-smartertools
Derek Curtis COO SmarterTools Inc. www.smartertools.com
0
Adam Replied
All amazing news & changes Derek!
1
igorinuk Replied
Why it is not mentioned in SmarterMail version history?! SmarterTools must warn customers about such changes and bugs!
When ST removed Bayesian Filtering from SM, it was an awful action, but, at least, there was a warning. Customers could read and decide: install the new update or not.
Now ST turns off Declude (in addition to removing Bayesian Filtering), and even doesn't care to warn customers.
1
Matt Petty Replied
Employee Post

Declude still works just at the moment requires a work-around in order to function. The new SmarterMail changed how configuration was stored and this BROKE Declude. We are waiting for the developers of Declude to make the changes to their product in order to function with ours. The new SmarterMail was a very very long time coming and we've had news and community posts throw all around about it. Apologize for any misunderstandings and if you need help getting Declude to function you can send us a ticket or follow Linda Pagillo's Post on December 14, 2018 at 4:00 PM about the workaround.
Matt Petty Senior Software Developer SmarterTools Inc. www.smartertools.com
3
igorinuk Replied
@Matt Petty,

Thank you for your answer. Please imagine that you are a customer, and you have lots of things to do and lots of software to manage. And only one of those apps is SmarterMail. Just one of many. And when you decide to upgrade it, you open SmarterMail version history page https://www.smartertools.com/smartermail/release-notes/16 and look at Important Notes at the top of that page. (It is a good idea to have those note, by the way. Thanks to a SmarterTools worker who wrote them.) So, you read them and understand, that you can update SM. You upgrade it and suddenly all emails stuck in Proc folder and you get 100s of complains from your clients.

You investigate that and find that Declude is not working. You think that Declude is the reason and spend more time. Because SmarterTools didn't warn you that they broke SM+Declude integration.

Will you be happy with that?

Note, that you answered me 5 days ago, but there is still no IMPORTANT warning about Declude at  https://www.smartertools.com/smartermail/release-notes/16 

Why?

Looks like you guys suppose that every SmarterMail customer must read your community forums, participate in beta testing, etc. It is not the case. Your software is useful, but it is only 1 of many apps your customers use, and it should not "eat" customers time, it should save it!
1
echoDreamz Replied
1. SmarterTools doesnt manage Declude, Mail's Best Friend does.
2. SmarterTools announced LONG ago that SM 17 was changing over from XML to JSON files and how they store stuff (this should have alerted the Declude devs that maybe they should be checking their product)
3. Mail's Best Friend should be testing their product with every new major release of SmarterMail (they do betas and I am sure ST would happily provide them earlier access), especially when ST has publicly stated, this build WILL change the fill structure
4. A good admin just doesnt blindly upgrade and hope for the best... You test, you test some more and then you test some more...

SM 17 has been out for nearly 2 months now, you'd think by now Declude would have been updated for it. IMO, no integrated (yet external) product should be relying on reading SM configuration directly, they should be using the API to read as much about the SM installation as possible vs. relying on the config files that could change any time, moved, names changed etc. Then you have to wait and hope that the external product updates their end, further delaying your work etc.

I'd assume to that the number of Declude installs is "low" vs. Cyren and Message Sniffer, so if it breaks, it is not a big deal vs. breaking Cyren or Sniffer.

With that said though, they should update the changelog page to state, do not upgrade to this build if you use Declude, or if possible, upgrade the installer to detect if you have Declude enabled in your SM config and give a warning about it.

Linda stated on the 11th of December 2018 that they just realized SmarterMail changed from XML to JSON files, which is odd... https://www.smartertools.com/blog/2018/01/18-SmarterMail-17-Introduction ST announced this change over a year ago...
4
David Barker Replied
For the past 5 years Mail's Best Friend has been working on producing a revamped Declude product (Declude Reboot) which is currently in Alpha testing. We will keep the community updated with progress. 
Email : david.barker@mailsbestfriend.com Web : www.mailsbestfriend.com Office : 866.919.2075
0
Matt Petty Replied
Employee Post
Ooooh! I guess 2018/19 is the time for rewrites, exciting!
Matt Petty Senior Software Developer SmarterTools Inc. www.smartertools.com
1
Richard Frank Replied
I'm looking forward to it David.
But 5 years for one project, that's a long time. 
0
echoDreamz Replied
Yeah... 5 years a bit much...
0
Richard Frank Replied
maybe it's released together with mapi functionality :)

4
David Barker Replied
We agree 5 years is a long time. We are a privately held company and have funded the development with blood, sweat and tears. We are so encouraged by users like yourself that are willing to come alongside us and back the project financially to make this happen faster. @echoDreamz please give me a call on my number below so we can discuss how much you are committed to financially invest in the development and future of Declude Reboot.
Email : david.barker@mailsbestfriend.com Web : www.mailsbestfriend.com Office : 866.919.2075
1
echoDreamz Replied
David, if you need dev assistance, I am glad to help (assuming it is a C# environment you are developing in (free of course, I dont mind donating my time)). As for financing, if declude stops being free with the reboot and is a good product, doesnt eat CPU like candy, doesnt stall out processing large amounts of emails and backup the proc directory, we will be happy to look into purchasing and using it in our environment.
2
David Barker Replied
Thank you for your offer, much appreciated! As we are in alpha testing with Declude Reboot dev assistance there is not what we need right now... however we could certainly use some help with a utility to bridge the current Declude to continue working with with the new SM JSON until we can get Declude Reboot into production. Would you still be willing to donate your time for this much needed fix for our beloved SM/Declude community ?
Email : david.barker@mailsbestfriend.com Web : www.mailsbestfriend.com Office : 866.919.2075
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Matt Petty Replied
Employee Post
A program or script run when Declude starts that makes a small version of mailConfig.xml containing only the server paths (and any other variables Declude uses) in XML format based off of the JSON file. This would be a way to do it without touching Declude code, assuming Declude can be setup to run a program/script before it boots.
Matt Petty Senior Software Developer SmarterTools Inc. www.smartertools.com
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echoDreamz Replied
Sure, as Matt stated, making a conversion between XML and JSON, JSON to XML is not difficult at all. This is assuming declude can launch and app when it starts. Though I assume you really only need an XML that reads a few of the values that Declude uses.
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echoDreamz Replied
Would just need to know what values Declude is looking for/needs. As well as a test platform that has declude fully configured. Ill happily do it. 
1
David Barker Replied
Great. This is what we believe will be a short term fix too. However there are many other XML files that Declude checks for information and would need to create those too, not just mailconfig.xml. We will also need to determine how often the script will run as to update the XML files based on changes in the JSON files. In the meantime we will get a list of files Declude needs from SM and setup the test platform. Stay tuned.
Email : david.barker@mailsbestfriend.com Web : www.mailsbestfriend.com Office : 866.919.2075
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Steve Guluk Replied
I just got bit by this issue…
Updated our copy of SM on Jan 22 and was not made aware of this issue with Declude OR that we would be bumped to ver17 from 16 (Build 6956 (Jan 17, 2019)).

This issue should be a Sticky on the community forum or in other communications (Declude email blast?) so people know in advance of updating. Trial by fire, sucks.

What I found… The prior file “mailConfig.xml” that WAS in the MRS folder is now renamed and found in C:\Program Files (x86)\SmarterTools\SmarterMail\Service\mailConfig.old.xml
Renaming the file back to mailConfig.xml and putting into C:\Program Files (x86)\SmarterTools\SmarterMail\MRS  then updating settings.json declude=true and restart SmarterMailService, did NOT work to allow decludeproc.exe to start as a service.

If anyone has a different experience, please advice.
0
Linda Pagillo Replied
Just an update... I logged into Steve's server to have a look. I believe the mailConfig.xml that he was using was corrupted. I replaced it with a backup he had and Declude spun right up. Please let me know if anyone else is having an issue and I will be happy to help. Thanks.
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
1
Steve Guluk Replied
Thanks Linda! Great product support as always.

It may have been related to the earlier post in this thread that says:

""For example, my customer yesterday still had the mailConfig.xml in their SM MRS folder, but it was renamed. I called SmarterTools to ask if I could rename that back to .xml without any repercussions to SM 17x. ""

I can see that should actually be the same folder that SmarterMail is currently creating the mailConfig.old.xml file (Program Files (x86)\SmarterTools\SmarterMail\Service).

** It's also important to know that when you start the SmarterMail service it backs up and then deleted the mailConfig.xml. So 1st start that service, drop in your replacement xml file and THEN start the Declude Service.


0
Linda Pagillo Replied
My pleasure Steve! Thank you for the correction and additional info! It is very much appreciated! :)
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
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Linda Pagillo Replied
EchoDreamz, I sent you a pm on here yesterday, but I'm not sure if you received it. We have a server ready for you, but I had a few questions. Can you please check your pm when you get a minute? Thanks! :)
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
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echoDreamz Replied
I responded to you Linda.
0
Linda Pagillo Replied
Thanks Chris. I received it and will respond to you shortly :)
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
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John Marx Replied
Linda, any updates on when this will be working with 17?
0
Linda Pagillo Replied
Hi John. Not yet. As you know, echoDreamz has graciously volunteered some of his time and expertise to helping us build an xml to json converter. We have been chatting back and forth over the past few weeks. I will hopefully have more info for you all about this soon. Thanks for your continued patience. Also, Declude still works with SM 17x if you upgraded from a previous version of SM. It does not work with new installations of 17x. I'm not sure if you were aware. Thanks again!
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
0
echoDreamz Replied
Apologies on the delay, we've been swamped with work and SM-related issues that are keeping us quite busy as well as a few other development projects that are pulling me away.
0
John Marx Replied
We were running but every time we had to copy files back and sometimes "forgot" which meant several hours of email broken so had to uninstall.
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Martin Schaible Replied
Now end of March, are we good to go for SmarterMail 17 (Build 7016) and Declude without troubles?

We want to setup a new server and migrating directly from version 15.x to 17 Build 7016.
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John Marx Replied
Declude will work. We were running. Our problem is upon doing the update/restarting the web service the necessary file is removed by SmarterMail. As long as you remember 100% you are good. Being I don't remember 100% I've opted to wait so as to not upset my users. 

Note: As Linda stated this only works for upgraded users and not fresh installs.
0
Martin Schaible Replied
Thanks John, i need to reread the thread to get the point.

Actually we're setting up a brand new server with SM 17 and copying the data over it. Therefore we have only "upgraded users".

Cheers
1
John Marx Replied
Martin, you may want to wait. I know 17 does a good job. Adding Declude will definitely take it to the level it needs to be and very much looking forward to it being done. 

Linda/Chris, I will be glad to assist with any C# code as well to keep things moving forward.
0
Martin Schaible Replied
No Problem to install the new server with the last Version of 15. 
0
Ben Replied
Any updates on this? 

I would like to upgrade soon.

Or failing that, has anyone worked out the required variables for the xml file yet and I'll just do it myself....
0
Linda Pagillo Replied
Hi Ben. We do not have an update to give you as of yet, But I do have some info that may be helpful to you. Declude depends on 6 .xml files in SM...

domainlist.xml
domainForwarding.xml
addressbook.xml
userconfig.xml
domainConfig.xml
mailConfig.xml

I reached out to ST support asking what these files are now called in SM 17x. They said...

domainlist.xml = domains.JSON
domainForwarding.xml
addressbook.xml
userconfig.xml = DOMAIN/USERS/USER/Settings.JSON
domainConfig.xml = DOMAIN/Settings.JSON
mailConfig.xml = Settings.JSON

We also looked through the Declude code to find out which parts of these files Declude uses...

The following elements and attributes are processed (case insensitive):

  1) <domain>...</domain>

  2) <Domain d2p1:name=

  3) <Domain name=

  4) <name>...</name>

  5) d2p1:directory

  6) domain=

  7) <DomainAlias name=

  8) directory=

  9) \\proc
  10) <Whitelist>

  11) <address>...</address>

  12) <domain>...</domain>

It isn't readily apparent from the code which .xml file corresponds to each of the above. However, I'm hoping that it'll be apparent to you. Please let us know if you are able to do anything with this information or if you have any additional questions. Thanks.

Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
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Ben Replied
Updates? 

Otherwise just to confirm, on reboot/restart simply copy the mailconfig.xml file back and restart declude? 

What's the talk of editing the json file to set declude=true? 

Cheers
0
Linda Pagillo Replied
Hi Ben. What you can do is rename the file from mailconfig.xml.old to mailconfig.xml and then set it to Read-Only so it is not over-written when you reboot.

Just an update as well... As you know, when this issue was first discovered, we had made the decision to put our time and resources into Declude Reboot. EchoDreamz here in the forums had kindly voluenteered to pick up the project on the conversion from json to xml in order to resolve this issue with the current Declude, but unfortunately he was unable to start the project so we are back to square one with no permanent fix for this issue. We still have this project on our dev list, but it will most likely going to happen after our release of Declude Reboot unless we can get another volunteer(s) to pick up the project.
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
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John Marx Replied
Linda,

Anyway we can get the old Declude and create a Github project? I know I would love to participate and have the rest of our development team put effort in as well.
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Linda Pagillo Replied
Thanks so much John! Unfortunately, we are unable to provide the Declude source code. I'm not sure if you would need it anyway. The project specs were to take a .json file and convert it to a .xml file so Declude can read it. Is there a way you and your dev team could create something to do that conversion? I sincerely appreciate your offer for help! Thanks!
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
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Neal Barnett Replied
So, just to be clear, if we wish to do an in-place upgrade from SM 16.x to 17.x, can we remove Declude for now from our SM 16.x install, then do a normal upgrade?  If yes, what's the best way to ensure that all Declude components are removed?


Thanks,
Neal
0
Linda Pagillo Replied
Hi Neal. I'm not sure why you would want to remove Declude. It will still working with SM 17x as long as it is not a fresh SM 17x install. In other words, Declude will continue to work if you upgrade from 16x to 17x, but you will need to tweak it using the directions at the following KB article: http://know.mailsbestfriend.com/declude_will_not_run_with_smartermail_17x--16718783.shtml Alternatively, if you wanted to completely remove Declude, you would need to following the instructions here: http://know.mailsbestfriend.com/how_to_uninstall_declude--244267783.shtml Please let me know if I can help in any way. Thanks!
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
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Scarab Replied
The problem we've been having is that Smartermail 17 is automatically removing the mailConfig.xml (if exists) on startup. So every time we install a SmarterMail update, or the SmarterMail Service crashes and restarts, or when the server is rebooted the mailConfig.xml is automatically renamed to mailConfig.old.xml, resulting in the Declude service to fail and all emails getting stuck in the /Spool/proc folder.

To work around this, until a newer version of Declude is available, we just created a Scheduled Task to run every 5 minutes which runs a bat script that checks for the existence of mailConfig.xml. If it doesn't exist it copies a fresh copy of the mailConfig.xml and restarts the Declude service. Has worked a charm ever since.

Our bat file just has the following lines:

:: Check if file exists
if exist d:\smartermail\service\mailConfig.xml goto:eof
:: copy file if does not exist
COPY c:\scripts\mailConfig.xml d:\smartermail\service\mailConfig.xml
:: restart Declude service
net stop decludeproc && net start decludeproc
:eof
EXIT
Post-Script: Could probably be done far more elegantly in a single Powershell cmd, but I'm getting too old school for my own good to bother.
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Neal Barnett Replied
@Scarab - are you saying that simply flagging mailConfig.xml as read-only (as it says in the knowledge base article) will not work?
@Linda - thanks for the info.  Regarding the uninstalling Declude knowledge base article, it says first to login to Smartermail admin then uncheck Declude.  But the only place I see Declude is under Settings, Antispam, Spam Checks tab.  There, it doesn't allow you to check/uncheck any of the spam checks.  Am I missing something?

Thanks, Neal
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Linda Pagillo Replied
I apologize Neal... In SM 17x, log into your SM admin interface and go to Settings > Antispam > Spam Checks tab. Double-click Declude and disable it. If it is already turned off, you will not be able to double-click it to open it.
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
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Scarab Replied
Neal,

TBH I may have completely overlooked the instructions to set the mailConfig.xml file as Read-Only. I'm going to give that a try and see if it keeps the SmarterMail service from renaming it to .old every time it starts/restarts...in which case there would be no need for a Scheduled Task. That certainly would be an easier solution than running a script.
0
Nik Walz Replied
Will there be an actual fix for this?  I'm debating not to renew my Smartermail subscription since this has been going on a year now without an update from Declude.
1
Linda Pagillo Replied
Nik, I just responded to the email that you sent to me explaining that currently there is no fix for this and we don't anticipate one. We do not have the resources to continue dev on an EOL product such as Declude. We were offered some help by a few folks here in the forums, but it did not pan out the way we all hoped it would. We are still grateful that we received offers to help us. 

I also explained that if you are able to renew your SM support and maintenance, you probably should because if you need help with something in the future that SM support/dev needs to help you with, you will need current support and maintenance.


Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
1
ActorMike Replied
I'm late to the party, but thanks for posting this! I upgraded SM from 16 recently. Nobody can accuse me of being an early adopter. lol.
1
Dave Camenisch Replied
Linda Pagillo are there any news about Declude Reboot?
1
Linda Pagillo Replied
Hi Dave. Thanks for asking! We are in the process of testing the last added module. We are hoping to release the Alpha by the end of the month. I will keep everyone updated as the end of the month nears. :)
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
0
Chinmay Khandekar Replied
Any update to this?
I guess I am using SM17.x and missing the mailConfig.xml tried installing Declude  and it complained about this :)
0
Linda Pagillo Replied
Hi Chinmay. Did you upgrade from a previous SM version to 17x or is this a brand new 17x install?
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
0
Chinmay Khandekar Replied
Hello,
This is a new install but I had a old copy of domainlist.xml which I modified to update. I just don't have mailConfig.xml -> Updated version. 
I have a old version of mailconfig.old.xml but its quite old and might need quite lot of editing to make sure it works/correct. Any critical parameters or template?
1
Linda Pagillo Replied
It does not matter how old the mailconfig.xml is. You can use the one you have. Rename it from mailconfig.old.xml to mailconfig.xml then set it to read-only. Declude will start right up once you do this. Also, for your reference here are the articles that show you what you need to do to get Declude to work with SM 17x..


Thanks!
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
0
Ben Replied
Does the domainlist file need to be updated everytime a new domain is added?
0
Linda Pagillo Replied
Hi Ben. Yes it does.
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
0
Ben Replied
Unfortunately this isn't a very good solution then, as we automate everything using SolidCP so would have no idea if a new domain had been added :(
0
Linda Pagillo Replied
I understand Ben. We may have a way around this, but I need to test it first over here. I will try to get it tested by next week as time permits. I will be back in touch.
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
1
Linda Pagillo Replied
Guys, I was able to look into this and I believe we have another workaround that is less time consuming than adding domains to the domainList.xml every time a new domain is added to a SM 17x server. When Declude does outbound scanning, it uses the bottom of the global.cfg to take action on an email. What you can do is find the OUTBOUNDSCANNINGSPAM directive in the global.cfg and set it to ON. Next, set the actions at the bottom of the global.cfg to WARN like this...

##<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<OUTBOUND TRIGGERS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
WEIGHT10    WARN
WEIGHT14    WARN
WEIGHT20    WARN
WEIGHT30    WARN
This won't stop Declude from seeing the messages as outbound, but this will allow Declude to scan the messages, score them properly, then pass the weight to SM so SM can take whatever action you set up for your LOW, MID and HIGH spam thresholds.

I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have any questions.
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
0
Ben Replied
Ah so if we are using Declude purely to manage inbound Message Sniffing - the domainlist isn't important?
0
Linda Pagillo Replied
You either need to have the domainList.xml populated with all of the domains on your server or you need to implement the alternative solution I posted above. Either one will work, but you need to do one of those things even if you only scan inbound messages.
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
2
Ben Replied
Got around to doing my upgrade today but didn't like the given solution (scan outbound) - so here's a python script you can set to run every X minutes/hours that will update your domainList.xml file with all the records from the domains.json (where they are now kept).

# set path to your two files here
domains = 'c:\program files (x86)\smartertools\smartermail\service\settings\domains.json'
domainList = 'c:\program files (x86)\smartertools\smartermail\service\domainList.xml'


import json


dl = open(domainList, "w")

dl.write("<?xml version=\"1.0\" encoding=\"utf-8\"?>\n")
dl.write("<DomainList>\n")

with open(domains) as d:
  data = json.load(d)

for k,v in data["domain_aliases"].items():
  dl.write("  <DomainAlias name=\"{}\" domain=\"{}\" />\n" . format(k,v))

for k,v in data["domains"].items():
  dl.write("  <Domain name=\"{}\" directory=\"{}\" />\n" . format(k,v["data_path"]))

dl.write("</DomainList>\n")

dl.close()
d.close()
0
Martin Schaible Replied
Are we really sure, that the content of the old file "domainList.xml" matters? I never updated it and declude works also for new added domains (so far i know).

Cheers!

0
Ben Replied
I assumed from Linda's previous post that declude uses the domainlist.xml to decide which emails are incoming and which are outgoing.

If you scan both ways it doesn't matter, but if you only use declude for inbound then it will skip domains not in the list.

This is an assumption of course, just the workaround she posted seems to imply that.
1
Linda Pagillo Replied
Ben, you are correct. Declude looks at the domainList.xml to determine whether the domain is local (inbound scanning will run) or remote (outbound scanning will run). If it does not see a domain there, it assumes it is remote and outbound scanning will be used instead of inbound. Thank you for sharing your script. Do you mind if I add it to our KB? If yes, I will be sure to give you a shout-out in the article. Thanks!
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
1
Martin Schaible Replied
Ben, many thanks for the script!

The script runs perfectly.

2
echoDreamz Replied
#Requires -Version 6.0.0
# Stop on errors
$ErrorActionPreference = 'Stop'

# Determine SM install path
$smInstallPath = (Get-ItemProperty -Path HKLM:\SOFTWARE\WOW6432Node\SmarterTools\SmarterMail -Name 'Path').Path

# Convert the domains JSON
$domainsJson = Get-Content -Path (Join-Path -Path $smInstallPath -ChildPath 'Service\Settings\domains.json') | ConvertFrom-Json -AsHashtable

# XML Output
$xmlWriter = New-Object System.XMl.XmlTextWriter((Join-Path -Path $smInstallPath -ChildPath 'Service\domainList.xml'), [System.Text.Encoding]::UTF8)
$xmlWriter.Formatting = 'Indented'
$xmlWriter.Indentation = 1
$XmlWriter.IndentChar = "`t"
$xmlWriter.WriteStartDocument()

$xmlWriter.WriteStartElement('DomainList')

# Domains
foreach ($domain in $domainsJson['domains'].Keys)
{
    $xmlWriter.WriteStartElement('Domain');
    $xmlWriter.WriteAttributeString('name', $domain);
    $xmlWriter.WriteAttributeString('directory', $domainsJson['domains'][$domain]['data_path'])
    $xmlWriter.WriteEndElement()
}
# Aliases
foreach ($alias in $domainsJson['domain_aliases'].Keys)
{
    $xmlWriter.WriteStartElement('DomainAlias');
    $xmlWriter.WriteAttributeString('name', $alias);
    $xmlWriter.WriteAttributeString('domain', $domainsJson['domain_aliases'][$alias])
    $xmlWriter.WriteEndElement()
}

# Finish
$xmlWriter.WriteEndElement()
$xmlWriter.WriteEndDocument()
$xmlWriter.Flush()
$xmlWriter.Close()
Here is the PowerShell version. I havent tested on versions below PS 7, but should work for 6. No need to define any paths, it will automatically check the registry for the install path.
2
Linda Pagillo Replied
Thanks Echo! Do you mind if I share this script in our KB as well? I will give you a shout-out, of course :)
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
2
echoDreamz Replied
Linda, of course, go for it :)
1
Linda Pagillo Replied
Thanks Echo!
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
0
Douglas Foster Replied
Message filtering has three distinct roles:
1  Filtering inbound traffic from unauthenticated sources, which works best on an incoming gateway.
2. Filtering inbound messages from authenticated users for malware breakouts, which must occur on the mail server, and
3.  Filtering outbound messages for  data loss prevention and malware breakouts, which works best on an outgoing gateway.

Since SmarterMail can be used for free as an incoming or outgoing gateway, I recommend using a three server configuration.   

 In gateway mode, all of the Declude filtering is "outgoing", so maintaining the domainlist will not be necessary on those servers.
0
ActorMike Replied
I get an error when I run that in Powershell @EchoDreamz

ConvertFrom-Json : A parameter cannot be found that matches parameter name 'AsHashtable'.
At line:8 char:129
+ ... Path 'Service\Settings\domains.json') | ConvertFrom-Json -AsHashtable
+                                                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    + CategoryInfo          : InvalidArgument: (:) [ConvertFrom-Json], ParentContainsErrorRecordException
    + FullyQualifiedErrorId : NamedParameterNotFound,Microsoft.PowerShell.Commands.ConvertFromJsonCommand
1
echoDreamz Replied
Sounds like you are running an older PS version. 
1
ActorMike Replied
Thanks @echoDreamz! Installed the MSI for Powershell v7.1.2 and it worked- https://github.com/PowerShell/PowerShell/releases/tag/v7.1.2
1
echoDreamz Replied
I've updated the script to make sure it meets the minimal requirements before executing.
0
John Marx Replied
I've installed declude, ran Echo's script (thank you), and then email doesn't work at all. I see it process but never gets delivered. Any ideas where I am lost?
0
ActorMike Replied
Has anyone installed the latest version of Smartermail thas was just release yesterday? It says 
  • IMPORTANT: It is not possible to downgrade or rollback to previous versions due to modifications to user CFG and GRP files.

Does that impact Declude?

1
echoDreamz Replied
While we do not use Declude, we do use the proc/drop folders, and since installing yesterday's build, SM is not picking up everything in the drop folder causing a back up of emails.

We have a ticket open, not sure if this is just our environment or what.
2
Linda Pagillo Replied
Hey Mike! No, that does not impact the Declude cfg files.
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
2
Dirk Replied
Reported in Nov 2018, it is now Dec 2021 and this is still happening which is unacceptable. When we have to pay our maintenance SmarterTools is quick with a reminder.
1
Robert Mathias Replied
Hi Linda - it appears to me the mailconfig.xml is not just deleted when SM is updated - it occurs when SM restarts after a server reset. We had a power cut last week and I had to manually restore mailconfig.xml on two servers. Has anyone else noted this?                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            
0
Douglas Foster Replied
I am not Linda, but I can confirm that the delete occurs every time that the SmarterMail service starts.    I suggest using NTFS permissions to set Everyone Deny=Delete on that file.  Then test to verify that SmarterMail starts OK even if the file delete throws an error.
0
Linda Pagillo Replied
Doug is correct. A restart of the SM service or a reboot causes this.
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
2
echoDreamz Replied
@Dirk, cant fully blame this on SmarterTools... Declude is older than the earth and should have been updated to support the newer JSON format long ago. ST probably should have dropped Declude out until it was modernized to use SmarterMail's newer file types.
3
ActorMike Replied
@echoDreamz there is no reason SM should be forcefully deleting a read-only file. All the rest of the discussion is clutter and diversion.

-The End-

@Dirk Erasmu Staff stated a month ago there would be an upcoming fix for the problem in a related thread:

https://portal.smartertools.com/community/a94392/if-declude-stops-working-after-a-sm-upgrade-use-these-instructions-to-fix-it.aspx
2
echoDreamz Replied
@ActorMike, no there isnt, same as, there is no reason Declude should not be updated to properly support SmarterMail's new file format that has been around for years now. SM's XML files were replaced with JSON files nearly 4 years ago.
3
Douglas Foster Replied
When I deployed Declude, they were very clear to me that there was no development as all development had stopped a long time ago.   I cannot imagine how you missed that message.

But Declude is customizable, so I have been able to create solutions to the few bugs that I have found.   I paid nothing for the product but chose to buy a few support hours in gratitude.   I have received very much value from Declude and have no complaints.

I tried to buy a commercial product that could do what I thought an email security product should do, but without success.  The commercial products have knowledge sources that. Declude lacks, so I still use two of them to check the stuff that Declude misses.  But Declude is very much the flagship of my email defenses.
1
echoDreamz Replied
Would have been awesome if they would have open sourced it too, let the community go to work for you...
6
Derek Curtis Replied
Employee Post
Hey, all

Regarding the fix for the file issue, we DID release it. However, the Build that contained it had to be pulled -- we were a bit overly cautious when we discovered an issue. Of course, it turns out we really didn't need to pull the release, but now we have several more fixes and efficiencies, and we're waiting to get it ALL out in one last release before the holidays.

So, the fix is done, it has been fully tested, and it is coming, again, with our next release.
Derek Curtis COO SmarterTools Inc. www.smartertools.com
1
Linda Pagillo Replied
Thanks for the update Derek!
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
0
John Marx Replied
Linda, do you have an update for us on when we will get the updated Declude. I know I miss it and tried installing this weekend but when I had it running everything was blocked and didn't want to spend time forcing it to work as I know it's not really supported since v17 was originally released several years ago.
0
Linda Pagillo Replied
Hi John! DR (the new Declude) is still in Beta testing. I will know more tomorrow after my weekly meeting with dev.
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
0
ActorMike Replied
The new release is out but it says "We now simulate older versions of SmarterMail to assist Declude customers"

Not exactly what I was hoping for and not sure exactly what this means.

In any event, definitely not doing an upgrade right now because we all know IT people fart around until after New Year's and if anything goes bad, you are screwed.  Lol 
3
Zach Sylvester Replied
Employee Post Marked As Resolution
Hello Everyone, 

Thank you all for your patience. We have solved the integration issue between SmarterMail and Declude. 
We Implemented files to simulate older versions of SmarterMail for Declude customers. Now, Declude should be much easier to install and run and you will no longer run into the issue where the mailconfig.xml gets removed. 
We urge everyone who uses Declude to please upgrade to the new version. We put a lot of work into this version and we think everyone will be really happy with it. 

Happy Holidays, 
Zach Sylvester Software Developer SmarterTools Inc. www.smartertools.com
1
echoDreamz Replied
@ActorMike, what were you hoping for, for a way EOL product?
2
John Marx Replied
I did a full install. It does process but everything stays stuck in the PROC folder. Our spool drive is H so not sure if that is the problem or not. Anyone have any ideas?
0
ActorMike Replied
@Zach Sylvester does this simulation mode impact any other SM features?  Also. how is that mode enabled?
1
Zach Sylvester Replied
Employee Post
Hello, 

Thanks for your response. This mode is automatically enabled when Declude is enabled on our latest version. @John Please make sure that Declude is running. 

Happy Holidays,  

Zach Sylvester Software Developer SmarterTools Inc. www.smartertools.com
0
John Marx Replied
Declude is running as a service. SmarterMail sees it.Using the PROC folder is also checked. 

I did turn it off as figure I am missing something as the move to the spool isn't working.
1
Robert Mathias Replied
Now installed 8025 on 5 servers, Declude running on 3 of them. Checked out Declude service, running perfectly without intervention. Also noticed the much simplified mailconfig.xml. Thank you development team!

Also a formerly problematic server that suffered from high cpu and before that high memory use now running with stable 4% cpu and 7% memory usage for the last 24 hours. As its a quiet period today about half their 50 users are logged in using MAPI. Of course will be monitoring the situation, but so far very good. Again, thank you development team and support for your great progress. Wishing you all at Smartertools a relaxed and happy Christmas.
0
Linda Pagillo Replied
@John Marx.. I just answered your email. Let me know if you still have issues and I can check it out for you :)
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
1
John Marx Replied
Thanks Linda! I had to uninstall as when we ran declude previously everything was on drive C. Now it's on drive H. An uninstall, reboot, install, and everything is good.

As always, Linda was awesome! :)

1
Linda Pagillo Replied
Thanks so much John! Glad that fixed it!
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
2
ActorMike Replied
I upgraded SM today. Everything went smoothly, declude works and the mailconfig.xml is not being violated anymore by SM service restarts. 
0
karl kapacee Replied
Hello, we still having go back in to folder & rename C:\Program Files (x86)\SmarterTools\SmarterMail\
mailConfig.xml

from
mailConfig.xmlold

when the server reboots or does windows update 
do you have permanent fix this issue please

this what we have running
Declude 4.12.11

SNF
SNF Server Version 3.2.0 Build: Apr 18 2016 19:14:37
SNFMulti Engine Version 3.2.1 Build: Apr 18 2016 19:15:16

SmarterMail Enterprise
Build 7929 (Sep 16, 2021)

Thanks
3
Dirk Replied
The Dec2021 update resolves that. 
0
karl kapacee Replied
i take it if install Build 8083 (Feb 17, 2022) also fix the issue too?
0
Linda Pagillo Replied
Yes Karl. That is correct.
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
0
echoDreamz Replied
@Linda - Any news on Declude Reboot? Been a really hot minute since we've heard anything.
1
Linda Pagillo Replied
Hey Echo!

DR is out of alpha and we are currently in closed beta. 

We have been testing in our own live environment for the past 4 months and results on both SmarterMail and Postfix have been excellent. 

Getting close but no release date as of yet. 

Thanks for asking! 
Linda Pagillo Mail's Best Friend Email: linda.pagillo@mailsbestfriend.com Web: www.mailsbestfriend.com Authorized SmarterTools Reseller Authorized Message Sniffer Reseller
0
ActorMike Replied
It's been over a year, so I guess this means that no new Declude will be released.
0
David Barker Replied
We like to test our products well before releasing :) We are implementing our key system which is the last part of the development schedule. 
Email : david.barker@mailsbestfriend.com Web : www.mailsbestfriend.com Office : 866.919.2075

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