Outlook 2016 - Can't delete IMAP emails properly.
Problem reported by Mark Lee - October 14, 2015 at 6:28 AM
Being Fixed
Outlook 2016 - Can't delete IMAP emails properly.
 
It seems there is a problem with Smartermail (14.3.5752) and NOT Outlook 2016 deleting IMAP emails. Any ETA on a fix?
 
Regards,
Mark L. Lee

51 Replies

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0
Rod Lasky Replied
Employee Post
Hi Mark.  Please see this page for a solution.
Rod Lasky
Technical Support Specialist
SmarterTools Inc.
(877) 357-6278
www.smartertools.com
0
Mark Lee Replied
Yes I am aware of that checkbox workaround but does not really fix anything... The mail is simply just deleted completely and not moved to Deleted Items folder...
0
0
Troy Bryan Replied
It really upsets me that this problem has clearly been narrowed down to affecting only the Smartertools IMAP mail server and yet this really bad advice is given as an "answer", It would be nice to hear if a fix is underway short term or do I need to find another mail server solution for my clients.
1
Mark Lee Replied
Rod Lasky,
 
I don't know if you have read my and other comments above yet but I have many other IMAP setups in Outlook 2016 that work perfectly... they just don't work in Smartermail...
 
Regards,
Mark L. Lee
2
Marc Frega Replied
Yeah I agree. This should probably be addressed.
0
Robert Emmett Replied
Employee Post
This issue has been fixed and will be included in the next minor release.  If you would like a custom build that fixes it, please contact sales@smartertools.com.
Robert Emmett
Software Developer
SmarterTools Inc.
(877) 357-6278
www.smartertools.com
0
Mark Lee Replied
Nice, I have made the request...
0
Web Master Replied
Good to hear. I made the 'mistake' of upgrading too soon, now I'm scrambling to move/delete IMAP messages from my SmarterMail server. Is there a timeline as to the next minor release?
0
Nathalie V Replied
As of what version/minor release of Smartermail is this fixed?
0
Rick Deschamps Replied
Just upgraded to 14.4.5801 and still seeing this issue.
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Matthew Titley Replied
A customer called today regarding this Outlook issue. I set up a PC in the lab with Outlook 2016 just this morning to attempt to replicate the issue. I think I've tried all combinations of IMAP settings options in Outlook 2016 (multiple times) and I cannot get a message to go from inbox to deleted items, unless I check "Mark items for deletion..." in advanced settings of IMAP. Not a good solution as this eliminates Deleted Items. Did a Thunderbird install side by side and, of course, it works fine.
 

I've read the other threads and posts about this, both here and elsewhere. Can someone at SmarterTools define why this happens?

Thanks,

Matt

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Matthew Titley Replied
Gee, I thought the issue was limited only to deleting but in addition I can't move items from IMAP folder to folder and have the original leave the inbox. In Thunderbird or web mail I see the item gets copied/moved. Problem is only in Outlook. I guess the million dollar question is whether this is a Microsoft problem or a SmarterTools problem?
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Nathalie V Replied
We also upgraded to the latest version of Smartermail 14 and this issue still exists.
 
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Mark Lee Replied
I can say that the problem was definitely fixed in Version 14.4.5784 you just have to wait until all of the UID's are updated and can take a while if you have lots of IMAP users and mail... In that version it was set to continuously update all of them until done but would slow down the server considerably until done... In the next versions SM slowed the UID update down to 10 per hour so will take a lot longer to update UID's but server will run better... You can speed up the process in the newer 2 versions by doing the following...
 
1. Stop the SmarterMail service
2. Open mailConfig.xml in the Service folder of the install path with a text
editor
3. Go to the close of the mailConfig section:
</MailConfig>
and put this line before that closing tag:
<maxUidVvFixesPerHour>all</maxUidVvFixesPerHour>
4. Start the SmarterMail service.
 
Your server may bog down for a while and suggest reversing the above when the UID's seem to be updated...
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Matthew Titley Replied
The download on the ST web site is still listed as 14.4.5801. Is the later build only available from sales? I emailed them this morning but haven't heard back yet. Curious to know why the 5748 build isn't public yet since this revision was initially released over two months ago. Thanks for the update.
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Mark Lee Replied
It was public but now they are up to 5801 which still has the fix...
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Matthew Titley Replied
Good Lord. How in the heck did I get the build sequence wrong... <face palm>
1
Nathalie V Replied
We are running SmarterMail Version - 14.4.5801, we let the server run with the resolution Mark Lee suggested for about 6 hours and then reverted to the default settings. Unfortunately our user just confirmed their IMAP Outlook issue still exists.
 
Maybe 6 hours wasn't enough I don't know?  How do we check this:
 
"Your server may bog down for a while and suggest reversing the above when the UID's seem to be updated..."
 
 
Where do we find the UID's and how do we know when they have been updated?
 
 
 
1
Paul Blank Replied
Makes me glad that my SM customers have taken my advice (so far, anyway) and don't run Outlook anywhere. Email is enough of a moving target, and that's before adding Outlook to that "soup"; MS doesn't make things any easier.
 
1
Junaid Raja Replied
I just moved away from Outlook to EM Client - It just works like a dream. 
1
Matthew Titley Replied
Performed my 14.4.5801 upgrade over the weekend from 11.x. Upgrade went like a dream, as usual. I don't know how long it took for the server to process all the accounts but my email test account wasn't fixed for IMAP and the Outlook 2016 issue for at least a few hours. As of this morning it's now working properly for deletion of messages or moving between and betwixt folders. Thanks again to SmarterTools for a very stable product.
2
Jarod Clark Replied
We've upgraded to SmarterMail version 14.4.5801, because we have several users on Outlook 2016. The upgrade didn't resolve the issue they were having with moving emails in Outlook 2016.
I made the changes to the mailconfig.xml suggested earlier in this thread. The server has been running with the updated mailconfig.xml, since 01/21/2016. One of the users affected by this issue contacted me today and said they still can't move emails between folders.
 
Am I missing something here?
 
Is there something else I need to do to the server?
 
How do I verify if the UID's have been updated?
2
Simon Holman Replied
We are also getting calls from our users saying that this issue is still affecting them. We're on 14.4.5801
1
Nathalie V Replied
So clearly the latest version of Smartermail does not resolve this issue.
 
Is SmarterTools working on this, can we please get some kind of official response?
 
 
1
Paul Blank Replied
Doesn't appear to be "Resolved" to me.
0
Troy Bryan Replied
No really - this IS resolved. But I cannot emphasize enough that it takes time for the update to make the necessary changes to each and every mailbox on the system. Done too fast it bogs down the server performance. On the default settings, it can take a VERY long time to ripple through all of the accounts. Days!!! not hours.
0
Tim Uzzanti Replied
Employee Post
When you install the latest version of SmarterMail, your server needs time to update the UID's for all users and emails on the server.  This can take some time especially on larger installations.
 
If you have been running the latest version for days or weeks and a customer is having an issue, we suggest the user remove their account in Outlook and re-add it to see if it resolves the problem. 
 
If you are still having issues, then I would suggest opening a ticket with our support department and we can help evaluate the issue.
 
This modification of UID's has been done on millions of mailboxes and we know the process is working properly and the changes by Outlook 2016 have been accommodated.   We have yet to see a server that had an issue or did not fully convert all UID's but there is always a first.  If you continue to have issues, please contact our support department.  As always, if we discover there is a BUG, we refund the ticket.  Here to help!
 
 
Tim Uzzanti
CEO
SmarterTools Inc.
(877) 357-6278
www.smartertools.com
0
Employee Replied
Employee Post
To know if the fix has been applied to all accounts or what progress has been made you can open the mailConfig.xml file and look for the uidVvFixProgress tag.  That will show the last email address that was processed (Domains and users are processed in alphabetical order) or it will be set to done if it has updated all accounts.
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Nathalie V Replied
We've asked above how we can identify if our UIDs have updated but no one has responded about this. How can be be sure if the UID modifications are complete or even updating?

Please provide some technical details.
0
Robert Emmett Replied
Employee Post
Nathalie, see Bryon Grosz's reply below. After checking your mailConfig.xml file, can you post what you find? Thanks.
Robert Emmett
Software Developer
SmarterTools Inc.
(877) 357-6278
www.smartertools.com
0
Nathalie V Replied
It was already showing as complete from the last time we enabled the update setting:

<uidVvFixProgress>done</uidVvFixProgress>.

I have asked the user to confirm if they are still having the problem and suggested if so that they remove and re-add their email account to Outlook to see if that helps.
0
Nathalie V Replied
The customer was able to resolve the issue by removing and re-adding their email account to Outlook.
 
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Tim Uzzanti Replied
Employee Post
Thanks for letting us know its resolved. Have a great weekend!
Tim Uzzanti
CEO
SmarterTools Inc.
(877) 357-6278
www.smartertools.com
1
Edmond Summers Replied
I just did all the fixes suggested in this thread, even new email since the latest version install cannot be deleted. The tag uidVvFixProgress shows no updates, it is empty. Please advise. We updated a bunch of users to 2016 yesterday and this is a mess.
0
Brian Ellwood Replied
You might give some specific versioning information just to aid this follow up...

Days, weeks, months from now "latest version" loses context
1
Giorgio Borra Replied
I Just upgrade my SmarterMail installation to v. 15.0.5949. At the same time I installed Outlook 2016 on a Pc with Windows 7 and link a mailbox via IMAP.
Sync take a long time, about 3 hours. After deleting a mail the same remain in the inbox and a copy in deleted items.
I have tried everything suggested, but the issue remain.
We have 74 mailbox on our server, and various hundreds mailbox on different installation of Smartermail on our customers.
We need a reliable solutions, we can't sell Outlook 2016 and have these problems with Smartermail.
Please Help 
 
Giorgio B
 
0
Tim Uzzanti Replied
Employee Post
I'm not sure I'm understanding the issue. You delete the IMAP account in Outlook 2016 and then re-downloaded the mailbox. What aren't you able to do after that?
Tim Uzzanti
CEO
SmarterTools Inc.
(877) 357-6278
www.smartertools.com
0
Giorgio Borra Replied
I can't delete any mail in the inbox. If I delete a mail I see a copy of the mail in Deleted Items, but the mail remains in the Inbox.
I tried to:
- uninstall and reinstall Office 2016
- delete existing profile in Outlook 2016 and create a new one
- delete IMAP account and connected again
After the initial sync I can't delete email.

Giorgio B
0
Tim Uzzanti Replied
Employee Post
That is REALLY strange and not a known issue. I would start a ticket with support.
Tim Uzzanti
CEO
SmarterTools Inc.
(877) 357-6278
www.smartertools.com
1
vk Replied
I have exactly the same issue. I just purchased new dell XPS with windows 10. I installed ms office 2016. I cannot delete items from inbox. Exactly as described by Giorgio. Please suggest what to do. I don't have such issue with outlook 2013. 
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Tim Uzzanti Replied
Employee Post
I would suggest opening a ticket to see if we can find any issues and verify that Microsoft Outlook 2016 is actually sending the delete commands to the server.

We are finding that there are significant issues with Microsoft Outlook 2016 and deleting of messages via EAS. There are also MANY complaints on the Microsoft Community about IMAP as well.

I refreshed a Surface Pro 4 this weekend with Windows 10 and Outlook 2016 and pulled down my mailbox with over 100,000 messages and deleting is working fine with IMAP. This week, we did reproduce some deleting issues with EAS in Outlook 2016 when using SmarterMail, Microsoft Exchange and Office365.

Again, you should let us help you evaluate your exact situation... but we are going to be contacting our Microsoft representatives to discuss issues we are seeing within the Microsoft Outlook 2016 client. They have been really bastardizing the client and just a few months ago updated POP3 which started deleting messages off peoples accounts. Its been hit or miss with Microsoft lately.
Tim Uzzanti
CEO
SmarterTools Inc.
(877) 357-6278
www.smartertools.com
1
Eric Schrepel Replied
Same issue here running Enterprise Edition 15.0.5949. Client deletes mail from Outlook 2016 on a Surface, his settings are configured to delete mail from server, goes back in via SmarterMail and the messages aren't deleted.
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Tim Uzzanti Replied
Employee Post
Not an issue with SmarterMail. The Windows Mail client randomly decides when it wants to commit those changes to the server. Microsoft has explained to us that it is because of the UNDO feature they provided within the client. You can hit the little "refresh" button in Windows Mail to commit those changes immediately. It does blow my mind that if you close Windows Mail, it won't sync before terminating. But when you come back into Windows Mail, it will sync it at some point. I am on the Insider Previews of Windows 10 and the updated Windows Mail seems to be a little more consistent. Hope this helps.
Tim Uzzanti
CEO
SmarterTools Inc.
(877) 357-6278
www.smartertools.com
0
Anthony Salter Replied
 
I have recently discovered the new issue with deleting mails from an outlook 2016 client that connects into a smartermail server.
 
Not sure why but this issue has just recently started to pop up for my users, 
 
 
We are still using 'SmarterMail Enterprise Edition Version 12.2.5266' 
 
I would like to avoid any major updates at present , our intention is to migrate soon but in the mean time this issue has arisen with many of our users,
 
How can i get around this issue with the setup with have , are there some configuration changes i can make or a patch that i can install on this version ?
 
 
Many Thanks
0
Derek Curtis Replied
Employee Post
Hi, Anthony

SmarterMail 12.x is well over 2 years old, so there are many, many reasons to perform a major upgrade to the most current version, not the least of which is to fix this issue. In Outlook 2016, Microsoft made some pretty significant changes to how it handles IMAP email, so we had to make significant changes to how SmarterMail handles IMAP. Therefore, there's no real workaround or configuration changes to be made as it's a change to the implementation of IMAP to accommodate the changes made by Microsoft.

I know you have a ticket with us on this as well. We'll follow up in that and see if we can help make the upgrade a bit easier for you.
Derek Curtis
COO
SmarterTools Inc.
(877) 357-6278
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Anthony Salter Replied
Thanks for the reply , i had conceded my only real options where require users to stay on 2013, or upgrade after reading quite a bit only line about this issue.

We have a license that covers the new version, but historically there have been issues with the upgrade process so some assistance with a smooth upgrade would be great i'm hoping i can do an test upgrade somewhere first.

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Nathalie V Replied
Hello,
 
What is involved in a scenario where you MOVED a domain from a server with an older version of Smartermail (that had the IMAP deletion bug) to a server with a recent version of Smartermail (that does not have this bug)
 
Since the email domain/accounts were initially created on the older Smartermail, it seems the IMAP deletion problem still exists after we moved them.
 
Do we have to do the full solution posted above (pasted below, which updates all domains) just to fix this ONE domain or is there something we can do ONLY update this domain?
 
 
------
1. Stop the SmarterMail service
2. Open mailConfig.xml in the Service folder of the install path with a text
editor
3. Go to the close of the mailConfig section:
</MailConfig>
and put this line before that closing tag:
<maxUidVvFixesPerHour>all</maxUidVvFixesPerHour>
4. Start the SmarterMail service.
------
 
 
Thank you
0
Derek Curtis Replied
If you move a domain and accounts from an older SmarterMail server to one running the latest version, SmarterMail should only re-index the one domain as the others on the server would already have been indexed. That said, you may still want to bounce the SmarterMail service to ensure that the new domain receives the re-indexing.

Adding the <maxUidVvFixesPerHour> line is simply a way for you to manage the re-indexing process to keep it from slowing down the server. On newer versions, this shouldn't be an issue.
Virgil Earp
SmarterMail BETA Tester
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Nathalie V Replied
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately we restarted the mail server overnight but the issue still exists.

The version of Smartermail running is 14.5

What else can we try doing? The end-user has also tried completing REMOVING the account from Outlook and adding it back in.
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Nathalie V Replied
It turns out the fix was to delete and re-create the account in Smartermail (it was also re-created in Outlook).

Only re-creating the account in Outlook did not resolve the problem.

This is a horrible solution, luckily this user didn't have any stored emails they needed but most people who use IMAP would not want to delete their email account...

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