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New Outlook Version
Problem reported by Vahn Babigian - 10/18/2023 at 4:51 PM
Submitted
V
I was just installing a new PC with the latest versions of Windows 11 and Office 2021 when I noticed that Outlook has been updated. 

When adding a new email user the option to choose Exchange is no longer available in this version of Outlook. I tried all of options with no luck. Luckily I was able to download a version of Outlook 2019 which works just fine. 

Is Smartermail going to work with this new version? If so, do you have instructions on how to configure it? 

 
Tim Uzzanti Replied
10/18/2023 at 5:09 PM
Employee Post Marked As Resolution
Yes, new Outlook will work once they finish the product and protocols which is slated for late 2024 from what we hear.  It is interesting how hard they are pushing the new version of Outlook even though it isn't finished and won't work for most customers.

The issue with the new Outlook and Outlook Mobile is that they pull your email from the mail server and send it through Microsoft's servers, where they can be read and processed before sending it to the Outlook client. Microsoft has realized that email data is valuable, and they clearly want to access as much email as possible, even if you use your own mail server or a different provider.

We do not agree with this practice, and we know that many of our customers share our concerns. That is why we are partnering with eM client, a secure and reliable email client that respects your privacy. Our partnership will enable our customers to receive some FREE licenses and discounts to eM client products, so you can enjoy a better and more secure email experience.

Hope this helps.
Tim Uzzanti
CEO
SmarterTools Inc.
We use Office 2021 LTSC with smartermail with no issues at all.

We set it up using the control panel and not the initial setup box.

Do you have any info/link to the info regarding outlook going through MS servers?
Andrew Barker Replied
10/19/2023 at 7:37 AM
Employee Post
Brian,

When I tried setting up my account in the Outlook for Windows client, I got this message:

Andrew Barker
Lead Software Developer
SmarterTools Inc.
www.smartertools.com 
Derek Curtis Replied
10/19/2023 at 7:41 AM
Employee Post
As an FYI, I was able to set up a SmarterMail account as an IMAP account in the New Outlook with no issues. (Once I enabled IMAP for that account.) It auto-discovered the settings and set the account up immediately.  

As Andrew pointed out, that pop-up is a bit concerning. Reading the page they reference, this is right at the top:

What happens when I sync my account to the Microsoft Cloud? 
Syncing your account to the Microsoft Cloud means that a copy of your email, calendar, and contacts will be synchronized between your email provider and Microsoft data centers. 

And it's in all versions of the new Outlook, for desktop and mobile, and for any type of account. 

It's also worth noting that the New Outlook only supports IMAP for non-Microsoft account types. No MAPI/EWS support, at least at this point in time.
Derek Curtis
CCO
SmarterTools Inc.
This is the replacement for the native email client in windows....
Derek Curtis Replied
10/19/2023 at 7:53 AM
Employee Post
It will be, yes. Mail, People, and Calendar are going away in Windows 11 (and 12). On my home machine, the Mail app gives me the option to try the New Outlook. Soon, that won't be an option.
Derek Curtis
CCO
SmarterTools Inc.
But for enterprises that would not be in issue... since they can run office on prem and use SM
Derek Curtis Replied
10/19/2023 at 9:11 AM
Employee Post
Brian,

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. If you use the New Outlook, regardless of how you're connecting and to which email provider/service you're connecting to, Microsoft is storing your information on their servers. As I mentioned, I set up a SmarterTools account using IMAP and THAT info is stored on Microsoft servers.

So even if you're running on-prem version of SmarterMail, if you use the New Outlook, a "a copy of your email, calendar, and contacts" is being stored on Microsoft servers. 
Derek Curtis
CCO
SmarterTools Inc.
B
Bruce Replied
10/19/2023 at 9:32 AM
If Micorosft are routing your email through their servers and storing a copy on their network when using the latest version of Outlook, then they will be getting some big fines from the EU as that would be a breach of privacy laws. There isn't even a privacy agreement when setting it up that tells you that they are doing this.
Derek Curtis Replied
10/19/2023 at 9:38 AM
Employee Post
Oh, I agree 100%! And that's one of the reasons we're rolling out the parternship with eM Client. Using SmarterMail and eM Client gives you the same functionality as using Outlook with Exchange (or any other service, on-prem or not). The BIG benefit is that there's nothing between eM Client and your email account that YOU don't control. Your data remains YOUR data!
Derek Curtis
CCO
SmarterTools Inc.
But if I install an office 2021 with outlook built in, they wont route the traffic via Microsoft servers....that I can block if I want to on the FW.

Its only windows11 built in client thats affected so far.

And I cant find ANY online info about it.... so right now its hearsay and nothing else.
Gabriele Maoret - SERSIS Replied
10/19/2023 at 10:50 AM
Outlook for Android also routes all traffic through MS cloud servers.

This is easy to verify: we have a Smartemail server with ONLY Italian users, but if I set it to allow access ONLY from Italy, then any Outlook for Android cannot access via EAS (but Gmail for Android or other clients can.. .).
I need to enable access from Ireland to allow Outlook Mobile to access via EAS.

In my opinion this is a MAJOR security AND privacy issue!

I'm considering taking Microsoft to the European Court for this...
Gabriele Maoret - Head of SysAdmins and CISO at SERSIS
Currently manages 6 SmarterMail installations (1 in the cloud for SERSIS which provides services to a few hundred third-party email domains + 5 on-premise for customers who prefer to have their mail server in-house)
Larry Duran Replied
10/19/2023 at 10:55 AM
Employee Post
Mobile Outlook on iPhones do the same routing as Android, and has done so for years.

The way Microsoft's routing works, is the desktop/mobile app sends the requests to Microsoft cloud servers, which then makes the protocol request to the SmarterMail server to sync the data.  That info is then routed in reverse.  So blocking it at the FW means you break their app completely.
Larry Duran
Product Manager 
SmarterTools Inc.
www.smartertools.com 
Tim Uzzanti Replied
10/19/2023 at 10:55 AM
Employee Post
Legacy versions of Outlook operate client to server without passing through Microsoft's Cloud / Servers. As you saw via the popup Derek shared, new Outlook goes through Microsoft Cloud / Servers.

Outlook Mobile is based on the acquisition of Accompli which is the technology Microsoft is using to pass all email through Microsoft's Cloud / Servers and now they are transitioning this technology to new Outlook for Windows and MacOS.

Hope this helps explain things, its critical information that companies need to know!
Tim Uzzanti
CEO
SmarterTools Inc.
Derek Curtis Replied
11/13/2023 at 1:56 PM
Employee Post
As an FYI: others are noticing how the New Outlook is handling account information, even from non-Microsoft accounts. We were ahead of the curve on this but now that Microsoft is having to make things a bit more clear, others are becoming concerned. 
Derek Curtis
CCO
SmarterTools Inc.
S
Sérgio Rocha Replied
11/17/2023 at 3:45 AM
I can predict that Microsoft will start (again) to have hard times with EU. They love to get Microsoft money in fines :)
Derek Curtis Replied
1/11/2024 at 9:19 AM
Employee Post
Just wanted to point out that ProtonMail now has a blog post up about the direction Microsoft is taking with their online services. It's quite a good read and pretty much verifies things we've been saying for the last year or so.
Derek Curtis
CCO
SmarterTools Inc.
Gabriele Maoret - SERSIS Replied
1/11/2024 at 9:28 AM
Who knows if this could be "legal" in Europe (I'm Italian, as you know...).

In my opinion there are the conditions for an important legal action against Microsoft by suing it to the European (and/or Italian) authorities responsible for privacy and data security.
Gabriele Maoret - Head of SysAdmins and CISO at SERSIS
Currently manages 6 SmarterMail installations (1 in the cloud for SERSIS which provides services to a few hundred third-party email domains + 5 on-premise for customers who prefer to have their mail server in-house)
Tim Uzzanti Replied
1/11/2024 at 10:06 AM
Employee Post
We were initially perplexed by Microsoft's decision to pursue this strategy after acquiring Accompli in 2014.  We are even more perplexed now that there's all these new laws, regulations, and consumer privacy demands. Kind of stunning that they have not reconsidered this strategy.
 
Even if it weren't for the new laws, this destroys all of Microsoft's credibility with consumers and businesses, and makes them look like the unethical and monopolistic company of decades past.  
 
In any case, this is why we have been working with companies focused on clients and have expanded our webmail to feel more like a client.  Webmail will continue to be more and more powerful and we're finding most companies don't want to manage desktop clients across operating systems. Webmail will become even more critical moving forward.
Tim Uzzanti
CEO
SmarterTools Inc.
kevind Replied
1/11/2024 at 12:01 PM
 
and have expanded our webmail to feel more like a client.  Webmail will continue to be more and more powerful and we're finding most companies don't want to manage desktop clients across operating systems. Webmail will become even more critical moving forward. – Tim Uzzanti
Tim,
Great to hear – totally agree! I think there's a post from like 5 years ago that asked for better webmail vs. MAPI protocol. Kudos to SmarterTools to keep improving the web UI and eliminate the need for clients. This will make it much easier to support users.
Kevin
Make a webclient with a matching interface like the ribbons in Outlook.

Job done. Then no one would use outlook.
echoDreamz Replied
1/12/2024 at 1:22 AM
J.  I personally will never ever use webmail. Ever. We have a ton of customers who are also not interested in it. Glad to see ST partner with em Client too so we have a really nice dedicated client to offer to users who are not interested in webmail. Also nice to see ST put resources into improving webmail for those who do like it. 
M
Mike Mulhern Replied
1/12/2024 at 12:22 PM
For my users and use case I think Webmail is pretty close to replacing Outlook.  There are a handful of improvements I can think of off hand that need to be made:
  1. Auto-complete addresses to mirror how Outlook works
    1. https://portal.smartertools.com/community/a93763/new-email-to-auto-fill.aspx\
  2. In New Email ability to open PDFs after upload before sending
  3. More robust search functionality
S
Sérgio Rocha Replied
1/12/2024 at 1:41 PM

We have a huge challenge archiving all the mail, because today we ask client to archive old emails, and most of them use outlook and archive em local PST. We already have today a huge grow of storage, the clients don't want to delete emails and outlook give this simple option to keep old email archived.

This is the reason why I propose the ideia for a more dynamic way to archive domains email, we need to split the old emails to NL-SAS/SATA/S3 archive. Its impossible to keep archiving emails in NVME like we have now, the NVME kill all our past I/O problems, but we cant continue archive new email and lots of old mail this way.

Thanks,

SR
N
Nathan Replied
1/12/2024 at 5:37 PM
Requested/suggested this feature via the forum before but ST said they considered a storage tiering issue and not something they would be implementing. 

Previously suggested SM implemented aging old emails to secondary storage which allow us to keep X months/years on SSD and old stuff on cheaper nearline. Seems like an opportunity missed.

SSD is cheaper than it used to be but not cheap enough for hosting many mailboxes that are many 10s of GB.
Karl Jones Replied
1/13/2024 at 10:33 AM
@Sergio Rocha
Try a product called Mailstore Server or the local users version, see if it's of some use for your situation.
S
Sérgio Rocha Replied
1/15/2024 at 4:52 AM
@karljones

We are a hosting company mailstore don't apply to our needs, we cant integrate mailstore with smartermail in a way that works for our clients.

Regards,
R
Ricardo Ranieri Replied
3/10/2025 at 8:00 AM
Hello,
New Outlook doesn't work with Smartermail MAPI/EWS?
Gabriele Maoret - SERSIS Replied
3/10/2025 at 8:14 AM
Short answer: no.

There's a long answer if you want, read here:



and here:
Gabriele Maoret - Head of SysAdmins and CISO at SERSIS
Currently manages 6 SmarterMail installations (1 in the cloud for SERSIS which provides services to a few hundred third-party email domains + 5 on-premise for customers who prefer to have their mail server in-house)
Derek Curtis Replied
3/10/2025 at 8:24 AM
Employee Post
Ricardo, New Outlook doesn't work with MAPI/EWS period, regardless of the mail server being accessed: on prem Exchange or SmarterMail. 
Derek Curtis
CCO
SmarterTools Inc.
J
Jack. Replied
3/15/2025 at 6:31 AM
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