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IMAP Problems w/ Build 7906
Problem reported by kevind - 8/27/2021 at 2:24 PM
Submitted
Recently installed Build 7906 (Aug 24, 2021) and having issues with Thunderbird and IMAP...

  • After deleting a message, the next message won't display in preview window.
  • Other times the pointer just spins like it can't communicate with server.
Anyone else notice strange behavior with Thunderbird & IMAP?  TIA

51 Replies

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3
kevind Replied
I did see this in the 7906 release notes:
  • Fixed: Multiple drafts can be orphaned in Thunderbird (IMAP).

2
Michael Replied
We have some reports from IMAP users that they can't move or delete items.
They're using Outlook 2007 (yes, that's old). But since 7906 when they move a message to another folder it doesn't leave the from folder, but it does appear in the destination folder (cache update problem)?
Additionally, they cannot delete a message. Click delete and nothing happens.
We're digging in, but will likely need to open a support ticket.

Doesn't seem to happen in Outlook 2016, just Outlook 2007 over IMAP. Was working well until version 7906.
3
Alessandro Pereira Replied
We updated yesterday (9/1/21) to version Build 7906 (August 24, 2021)

We also now have several issues with Thunderbird via IMAP that we didn't have in the previous version Build 7887 (Aug 5, 2021)

These are the same problems reported by Kevind

- After deleting a message, it comes back as it was not deleted.
- Too many crashes, the pointer just spins like it can't communicate with the server.

It was terrible.
1
Gabriele Maoret - SERSIS Replied
Same thing here, but luckily only 2 customers have problems.

We made sure to give them EM Client and then we have already fixed it...
0
Zach Sylvester Replied
Employee Post
Hello, 

I have tested all of these functions in thunderbird and they appear to be working as intended. Can you please try removing the account from thunderbird and resyncing? 

Best Regards, 
Zach Sylvester
Technical Support Specialist
SmarterTools Inc.
(877) 357-6278
www.smartertools.com
0
Kyle Kerst Replied
Employee Post
I recommend submitting a ticket on this if Zach's steps do not resolve the problem. I am starting up some long-term sync testing via Thunderbird as well and will report back here if I am able to replicate the issue. 
Kyle Kerst
Technical Support Specialist
SmarterTools Inc.
(877) 357-6278
www.smartertools.com
1
Alessandro Pereira Replied
I did as you suggested Zach Sylvester, deleted the Thunderbird account and created it again.

But the problem remains, every time we delete several messages from some folders Thunderbird crashes and is waiting.

This did not happen before in version Build 7887 (Aug 5, 2021), only after upgrading to version Build 7906 (August 24, 2021)

We are thinking about going back to version.
0
Kyle Kerst Replied
Employee Post
I strongly recommend you avoid downgrading per our release notes. Please submit a ticket on this and we'll get to the bottom of it for you.
Kyle Kerst
Technical Support Specialist
SmarterTools Inc.
(877) 357-6278
www.smartertools.com
1
Michael Replied
Curious to see what you guys find here. Seeing the same issue above in Outlook 2007 IMAP connections.

Since update to 7906 when they move a message to another folder it doesn't leave the from folder, but it does appear in the destination folder (cache update problem)?

Additionally, they cannot delete a message. Click delete and nothing happens.

I imagine the above should be able to be replicated on Thunderbird and older Outlook 2007.

Our affected users have very large accounts with many folders. Accounts were created many many many versions ago.
3
Stephen Roderick Replied
I am seeing this same problem. I have my Thunderbird set to move messages to the "Deleted Items" folder when deleted. If I delete a message and then go into the web interface I can still see the message in the original folder, but it is marked deleted. Within Thunderbird I have much better results if I Compact a folder after deleting messages. This wasn't necessary before. Seems a lot like the moving messages problem that Michael described above.

Hopefully this adds some additional information.
4
Duarte Replied
IMAP issues in several mail clients including Thunderbird, Postbox and also eM Client is performing erratic.

By the way, we're exhausted from dealing with bugs after every update. Our customers just want an IMAP that works! They don't care about MAPI because those who want already have migrated to 365...
2
Michael Replied
I see Build 7914 was released September 1, but I don't see any notes regarding IMAP. Anyone try it?
4
Stephen Roderick Replied
Build 7914 did not fix this problem.
3
Alessandro Pereira Replied
Still the same problem, Thunderbird crashing after deleting messages, needs to close and open again to get back to work.
4
Jim Ash Replied
Upgraded to 7914 last night (5 Sep) - no issues with the upgrade but Thunderbird on IMAP is horrible. Same on several PCs (I work from 3). You guys definitely broke something in IMAP; also had some old messages show up at the top of the inbox on an iPhone. Also hangs on downloading messages (pinwheeling progress bar). Please don't blame it on the TB installs; nothing has changed except the SM upgrade. Need an emergency fix ASAP...
4
kevind Replied
Based on all the replies, this looks like an issue with SM, not our server or clients.

We might try rolling back to a previous version. I'll report back how it works.
1
Michael Replied
Opened a case today with support. Seems they still cannot replicate the issue. Logs provided didn't seem to give too much info. Anyone else had success pinpointing the problem with Support?
1
Gabriele Maoret - SERSIS Replied
We have about 750 users. Only 2 of them had raised a ticket (both with Thunderbird latest version).
We solved with EM Client (and they loved it, much more than Thunderbird!!!).

No issues so far.
1
Michael Replied
Only our Outlook 2007 IMAP users are having issues. Outlook 2016 IMAP connected issues are not having issue. Wonder what IMAP changes are in Build 7914 that may have broken IMAP accounts on both Thunderbird and Outlook 2007?
5
Kyle Kerst Replied
Employee Post
Just a quick update for you all on this one. Under Thunderbird/IMAP I am seeing some erratic behavior as well in that read/unread statuses don't appear to stick, or at least don't show until another mailbox update is performed (such as deleting a message.) I also found deleted messages are returning to the inbox after being deleted via Thunderbird. I've escalated this to development and will post back here with an update when I hear back. With that being said, I was not able to replicate hanging and crashes in Thunderbird. If you have crashing behavior taking place please submit a ticket on this. 

 Thanks everyone!
Kyle Kerst
Technical Support Specialist
SmarterTools Inc.
(877) 357-6278
www.smartertools.com
5
kevind Replied
Downgraded to Build 7901 (Aug 19, 2021) and IMAP is working fine...
0
Kyle Kerst Replied
Employee Post
We strongly recommend avoiding any/all downgrades. While I am happy to hear your IMAP interface is working as expected post-downgrade, I recommend other users refrain from doing so to avoid further issues.
Kyle Kerst
Technical Support Specialist
SmarterTools Inc.
(877) 357-6278
www.smartertools.com
5
Sébastien Riccio Replied
Kyle, what is then the proposed solution from SmarterTools, when a new build is causing lot of troubles and downgrade is the only way to go back to normal but not advised ?
Restoring a backup from before the update and lose customer data from the date of the upgrade up to the date of the restore ? 
With the obvious low quality of the updates that often bring issues, you have to keep the product downgradable at least to the previous build in case of mess brought by an update!

I can't believe what I'm reading here. Update caused trouble -> don't downgrade and stay in trouble with a broken system. Great!!
 
Sébastien Riccio
System & Network Admin

0
Kyle Kerst Replied
Employee Post
@Sébastien: Our suggestion here is to work with support to get to the bottom of the issue so we can provide a resolution as soon as possible. While I understand the impact is something you want to mitigate right away, this doesn't help us find the root cause and get it resolved.

Additionally, as I noted earlier, the downgrade can introduce new and more critical issues depending on a variety of variables. These underlying changes (the ones requiring no downgrades) are an effort in improving our products over time, and so are not easily avoidable.

With that being said, these issues (internally replicable ones) look to be largely display/refresh related (at least in my case) and are with our development team at the moment awaiting resolution. We apologize for the inconvenience and frustration, and can assure you we're doing everything we can to get to the bottom of it. 
Kyle Kerst
Technical Support Specialist
SmarterTools Inc.
(877) 357-6278
www.smartertools.com
1
viv burrows Replied
We fortunately chose to remain on 7898 as end users are not as patient as Smartertools expect.
2
Sébastien Riccio Replied
Hello,

We are also starting to get our flow of tickets for trouble with Thunderbird since we applied the last update.

Some of the reported issues are:

- Message filters are not applied consistantly to all received messages
- Flagging messages as read takes a long time and is not always effective. It sometimes require to restart Thunderbird and go back to the message and mark it again as read.

It looks a bit the same behavior as you noticed, Kyle.

Also we have issues reported about CalDavSynchronizer throwing sync errors for some customers on multiple different computers, and some other customers with pure MAPI are also having sync issues on different computers at the same time, which could indicate that it's not a Outlook file corruption but rather a server side issue...

All these have a common origin that seems to have started when we applied the latest update.

We'll really have to consider a downgrade if no solution is found for the end of the week :/

Kind regards
Sébastien Riccio
System & Network Admin

5
echoDreamz Replied
Seems the 1 week rule is going to have to change to a 1 month rule..,
0
Kyle Kerst Replied
Employee Post
@Sébastien: Can I have you submit a ticket on the rule issue please?
Kyle Kerst
Technical Support Specialist
SmarterTools Inc.
(877) 357-6278
www.smartertools.com
0
Sébastien Riccio Replied
@Kyle:
Unfortunately to reproduce the user issue with the customer filters on Thunderbird, I would have to ask him to provide me a full copy of his thunderbird installation/configuration to reproduce it, and this might be difficult.

But as he's also having the other issues mentionned in this thread, my guess would be that they are related to the same root cause.

About the downgrade thing. You're saying earlier in the thread that "as per release notes" it's advised not to downgrade, but I can't see the warning for downgrade, in past builds. Oldest build with the warning was 7879 (Jul 28, 2021).
So according to release  notes It should be ok to rollback to pre-7906 (where the issue seems to originate from ?)

I have the hard task to decide what we're going to do to go back to a normal situation before the weekend...

Sébastien Riccio
System & Network Admin

0
Kyle Kerst Replied
Employee Post
That is quite possible Sébastien. Let's focus on the read/unread and deletion issues for now and we can reevaluate the filters issues if they persist once we get these fixed. Thanks!
Kyle Kerst
Technical Support Specialist
SmarterTools Inc.
(877) 357-6278
www.smartertools.com
1
Sébastien Riccio Replied
@kyle Copy that!
Sébastien Riccio
System & Network Admin

5
Montague WebWorks Replied
I've noticed the same issues on my Thunderbird install. With the Sept 1 release, reading an email doesn't mark it as read. If I manually mark it read, within a few seconds it goes bold again. I'll skip to the next email, and five seconds later it goes unbold. Also, deleted emails now appear in the mailbox in the web interface, but with a line through them.

Also, in Thunderbird, drafts still stack up every couple minutes if I'm working on a new email over a period of time. If I don't make any edits for a while (ie; no changes) then no additional copies in my drafts folder. If I'm editing constantly over, say, ten minutes, then I have multiple copies in my drafts folder with the various iterations. This issue has been hanging around for a few SM versions.

Additionally, the issue that made me try emClient back a few months ago: folders not seeing new emails, even if I click Get Messages, unless I go look at another folder, wait five seconds, then come back to the original folder. This works sometimes. Sometimes not. If I'm in a critical back-and-forth email period with a client I am forced to go to the webmail to ensure I receive emails when they arrive on the server.

BTW, I know some people here love emClient, but it was a total failure for me. Endless spinning wheel.
Mik MullerMontague WebWorks
6
John C. Reid Replied
Since updating to Build 7914 two weeks ago IMAP has been worse than ever. I get twice an many as the normal support tickets about email and my own Thunderbird install is very wonky. Messages marked read mark themselves as unread, messages deleted return a second or two later, and drafts still don't delete. Even the webmail IMAP client doesn't like it as the bug where webmail users can't send because it is "saving a draft" has returned. The most recent build should be nicknamed the regression bug build. Going through my email every morning for the last couple weeks has been an exercise in frustration as I have to mark every message read 4 or 5 times before it takes and delete every messages 2 - 4 times before it stays gone. The final candle on the cake for me was that it regressed a bug going all the way back to the introduction of version 17 and renamed my mailconfig.xml file as mailconfig.old.xml which killed Declude and caused the proc folder to fill and not empty. That took me almost 2 hours to troubleshoot. Customers were not happy.
John C. Reid  / Technology Director
John@prime42.net  / (530) 691-0042
1300 West Street, Suite 206, Redding, CA 96001

4
Sébastien Riccio Replied
Indeed, this build is a nightmare... and we're advised not to downgrade because it can create more trouble, and no fixes available. Awesome situation...

It brings back that good old discussion we have here internally; should we switch to another solution... :/

I know it does not help to rant but things have to be said.
Sébastien Riccio
System & Network Admin

2
Sabatino Replied
For a period of time, needing to find an alternative to icewarp onpremise and cloud, I tried many mail servers

icewarp I still have it and I don't think I will convert existing servers and my clients to the cloud.

Based on what is needed I choose if sm or icewarp

Sm has great potential in my opinion, cost / performance is excellent. The madness are these weekly updates.

At least they would need to carry out a Long Term version as many do.

If they don't, I propose that we elect a long term version. As for me, the updates, unless they concern very serious things or features that I badly need, I will apply them from now on after a month.

The 7 day rule is no longer enough
1
Alessandro Pereira Replied
Every update is a new problem, it is getting very difficult to work with smartermail, application quality has dropped a lot.
2
Jim Ash Replied
What really concerns me with the SM IMAP protocol issues is inbox corruption found in the single digit releases years ago. I can cause an inbox to go corrupt today by executing large block message moves for archive purposes. IMAP in Smarter Mail has never been ready for prime time. Each day the ticks by increases my concern and reduces confidence. Beginning to remind me of an update for Imail from IPswitch at the turn of the century. They went a year without an update which forced me to abandon the product. I'd much rather be on Linux but need the features. Please fix your software...
6
John C. Reid Replied
This I will say. Like others I have deeply evaluated several other solutions, but have as of yet to find a better overall solution. The killer feature that keeps us on SmarterMail is the log and log searching. Compared to other solutions the utility and usability of it is night and day. 

I am the individual who introduced Mail's Best Friend to to the CEO of Axigen, and they now offer that as a solution. So I know where I come from in terms of comparison of the email solutions out there. SmarterMail, please listen. Don't mess up a good thing attempting to add features when there are still so many bugs to be addressed. Stability is much more important to us than features, especially to us service providers. If someone like Axigen ever gets a really comprehensive log search, it is over for you guys. You keep straining the relationship with your customers with decisions like turning the update protection into a subscription, and regression bugs that force us as service providers to keep apologizing to our customers for things that should never happen. Those customers don't blame you, they blame us.

The ONLY feature that you are missing that is a glaring problem, and needed to be added long ago is SNI (Server Name Indication) on the protocol bindings. Otherwise you need to spend a good 6 months doing nothing but fixing bugs and improving stability. If I have to pull a heart string card to see this happen, I will. Do this in memory of Bruce.
John C. Reid  / Technology Director
John@prime42.net  / (530) 691-0042
1300 West Street, Suite 206, Redding, CA 96001

1
echoDreamz Replied
Only issue with SNI is low amount of support from email clients, especially Outlook.
1
Sébastien Riccio Replied
I just want to add note about the original topic of this thread (IMAP issues).
It seems it not only affects Thunderbird but also some other clients software, for example we got a couple of calls of the same strange behaviors with Mac Mail using IMAP.

Sébastien Riccio
System & Network Admin

1
echoDreamz Replied
It's weird... we are running the latest Sept 1st update and havent received a single call about IMAP acting up... Normally when a protocol is acting up, we get destroyed with tickets/calls/chats.
1
Sabatino Replied
I must say that I too am not having problems / reports

Version 7906 for about 20 days

about 600 mailboxes of which a 200 is accessed via imap with thunderbird
No problem reported so far
4
Sébastien Riccio Replied
I'm a bit surprised there is no mention of this issue in the latest build. Was it a "false positive" ?
Sébastien Riccio
System & Network Admin

3
kevind Replied
Installed Build 7929 (Sep 16, 2021) and still having the same issues.

Also, as others have reported, after deleting a message in IMAP, we see the message with a line through it in webmail. Normally, it's gone as the client moves it to Deleted Items.

Need to follow what @echoDreamz and others stated above -- the 1 week rule is going to have to change to a 1 month rule... 😂 

3
kevind Replied
Maybe ST can just roll back the IMAP change that was made in build 7906?

Feel free to send me a new build and we'd be glad to beta test before release.  In fact, that might be a good idea is to go back to some traditional software beta testing to cut down on the number of new bugs that are introduced.
2
Michael Replied
It was my understanding that Smarter Tools had replicated the IMAP issues and were working on a fix. Unknown why it didn't make this week's release. It's likely undergoing testing, I hope. We're holding off on updating until we get word the IMAP issues are resolved. In general we plan to only update if a specific fix we need is included.
1
Jim Ash Replied
One common denominator I have noticed is that it's more of an issue with Thunderbird mail accounts with large inboxes - I have a dozen accounts for different purposes. Two are large - 6k to 12k messages in the inboxes. The smaller accounts - 100 to 2500 messages in the inboxes don't appear to have the problem. Assuming the software is developed in C#, could this be an integer sizing problem? There is definately a timeout problem with the progress bar freeze. Incorrectly sized timeout variable or retry issue? It's been a while since I've coded but developing embedded code in the past, I have seen similar...
2
kevind Replied
FWIW, have less than 100 messages in Inbox and still experience these issues.

Also noticing that some messages do not get marked as read when selected. @Kyle and others have mentioned this.
0
Kyle Kerst Replied
Employee Post
Good afternoon everyone, I hope this note finds you well. I checked on the development task I had noted above (relating to read/unread and delete statuses) and it is currently In Progress. So, while we don't have updates for you at this time I can assure you we're looking into it and hope to have updates soon. With that being said, we're not seeing this reported in more than a couple of environments, so it does not appear to be widespread at the very least.
Kyle Kerst
Technical Support Specialist
SmarterTools Inc.
(877) 357-6278
www.smartertools.com
0
echoDreamz Replied
Yes, our environment we have zero open tickets currently for SmarterMail, which is amazing...
0
Gabriele Maoret - SERSIS Replied
I'm on 7914 and no one of my clients complained for this issue... Maybe I'm lucky?

I wonder if I can upgrade to 7929 without concerns...


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