Thunderbird and IMAP : Grayed folders (a.k.a ghost folders)

Problem reported by Sébastien Riccio - 3/23/2021 at 1:39 PM

Resolved

Hello,

First let me tell that this already existed before we updated to latest version (7751), so it's not a new issue.

That being said, we're having some customers, using thunderbird (w/ IMAP), reporting that they have inaccessible folders (they are listed but grayed) in their folder tree.

I was able to reproduce the issue with the user account and dig a bit more.

After manually testing the folders, I noticed that the grayed folders had an IMAP property that differs from normally working folders.

A working folder:

? SELECT "INBOX/Iamagoodfolder"
* 28 EXISTS
* 0 RECENT
* OK [UIDVALIDITY 1] UIDs valid
* OK [UIDNEXT 29] Predicted next UID
* FLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Draft \Recent)
* OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Draft \Recent)] Folder flags
? OK [READ-WRITE] SELECT completed

Another working folder:

? SELECT "INBOX/metooiamagoodfolder"
* 284 EXISTS
* 0 RECENT
* OK [UNSEEN 1] Message 1 is first unseen
* OK [UIDVALIDITY 1] UIDs valid
* OK [UIDNEXT 285] Predicted next UID
* FLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Draft \Recent)
* OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Draft \Recent)] Folder flags
? OK [READ-WRITE] SELECT completed

Grayed out folder:

? SELECT "INBOX/Somebadfolder"
* 41 EXISTS
* 0 RECENT
* OK [UIDVALIDITY 5007] UIDs valid
* OK [UIDNEXT 42] Predicted next UID
* FLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Draft \Recent)
* OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Draft \Recent)] Folder flags
? OK [READ-WRITE] SELECT completed

Another grayed out folder:

? SELECT "INBOX/Someotherbadfolder"
* 2 EXISTS
* 0 RECENT
* OK [UIDVALIDITY 5009] UIDs valid
* OK [UIDNEXT 3] Predicted next UID
* FLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Draft \Recent)
* OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Draft \Recent)] Folder flags
? OK [READ-WRITE] SELECT completed

The only difference I see about the working folders and grayed out folders in Thunderbird is the UIDVALIDITY that reports "1" for working folders and another integer for non-working folders.

I know some stuff about IMAP but not enough to be sure what UIDVALIDITY is for and if this is a normal behavior.

Anyone kind enough to shed some light on this ?

Thunderbird version used for the tests:

Thanks a lot for your kind advices.

Sébastien Riccio

System & Network Admin

https://swisscenter.com

13 Replies

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Kyle Kerst Replied

3/23/2021 at 4:32 PM

Employee Post

Sébastien, I checked with development on the UIDVALIDITY value and from what they've explained to me it sounds like seeing integers other than 1 here is normal depending on the current sync state/session:

From RFC 3501:
The unique identifier validity value is sent in a UIDVALIDITY response code in an OK untagged response at mailbox selection time. If unique identifiers from an earlier session fail to persist in this session, the unique identifier validity value MUST be greater than the one used in the earlier session.

Ultimately this integer will change depending on what "version" of the folder the client has synced. Based on current functionality, this number will be incremented based on where the client is at sync-wise, and can also be incremented if there is a serialization issue with that folder, indicating to the client/server it should be re-synced I believe. As such, this sounds like it might be related to the folder or content within that folder, and so I wanted to ask you to submit a ticket on this so we can help get to the bottom of it for you.

Kyle Kerst IT Coordinator SmarterTools Inc. www.smartertools.com

Sébastien Riccio Replied

3/23/2021 at 8:52 PM

Hello Kyle,

Thank you for the infos. Ticket opened!

Sébastien Riccio System & Network Admin https://swisscenter.com

Gerardo Altman Replied

4/12/2021 at 10:54 PM

Hi all

we are seeing the exact same issue we have also opened a ticket.

2AB-2807EB23-0B15

Please advise ASAP as clients are not able to

Access important data in those greyed out folders.

thank you.

Webio Replied

4/13/2021 at 3:35 AM

I had similar issue on my private email account. Issue was with subfolders created from webmail to a custom folder.

Folder structure was like:

Inbox

...
...
Somefolder
- ExistingFolder
- ExistingFolder
- NewFolder

- ExistingFolder

- NewFolder

As far as I can remember in Thunderbird new folders where visible correctly in Manage Sync window where I can select which folders should be fetched from IMAP account BUT then in folder tree new folders appeared under second tree where folder was starting with lower case letter like (and folder with subfolder where greyed):

somefolder
- NewFolder

- NewFolder

Somefolder
- ExistingFolder
- ExistingFolder
- ExistingFolder

I've managed to create new IMAP folders with slightly different names directly from Thunderbird, move messages to those folders in webmail (because greyed folders where empty), delete greyed folders in webmail and rename new folders to names which where greyed.

EDIT: P.S. It would be good for SmarterTrack to handle correctly images bigger than one which is visible inside post entry. Example from first message. Image is not clickable but when you copy URL to this image:

https://portal.smartertools.com/AvatarHandler.ashx?postattchid=1455

you will see much bigger version of it (it might be helpfull in some cases to understand problem which is being described).

Sébastien Riccio Replied

4/13/2021 at 4:47 AM

Hello,

Yes we also have a ticket open for this and waiting for a solution provided by SmarterTools.

What I noticed after looking myself at the folders.json file, is that this it is something about low/upper case mismatch between the folder names/path and the subscribed folders list used by Thunderbird (and also saved server-side in the user folders.json file.

After fixing manueally the case mismatch in folders.json and reloading the domain, the problem disappear.

Still we need to understand how the issue appeared so it doesn't happen again.

I also wrote a python script that loads all users folders.json and check for case mismatch and it reports around 2200 affected accounts on 25k total accounts...

Kind regards.

Sébastien Riccio System & Network Admin https://swisscenter.com

JerseyConnect Team Replied

4/13/2021 at 6:23 AM

We had a user run into this issue with subfolders of Inbox, where there was a case mismatch with the Inbox path. What I found is that new subfolders get created with the path Inbox/foldername, but renamed folders have the path inbox/newfoldername. Thunderbird can't seem to deal with the mismatched inbox case, but Outlook was fine.

I worked around the issue by recreating the folders with the desired names and then copied the mail.

Sébastien Riccio Replied

4/13/2021 at 7:42 AM

Yes, we saw the same. It is especially (only?) subfolders of Inbox and seems it doesn't affect outlook.

Sébastien Riccio System & Network Admin https://swisscenter.com

Matt Petty Replied

4/14/2021 at 8:25 AM

Employee Post

This issue is fixed and will be in the next build. Sorry I would've updated this thread on Monday but didn't see it. The issue was related to case-mismatching on the subscribed folders vs the actual folder paths. It will now work fine with a case-mismatch now, as we will now correct the path before sending it to IMAP.

Matt Petty Senior Software Developer SmarterTools Inc. www.smartertools.com

TOAST.net Replied

4/14/2021 at 10:12 AM

Great! We noticed this problem also, but just worked around it. Thanks, Matt!

Gerardo Altman Replied

4/14/2021 at 1:09 PM

@Matt when is the next build due?

we have customers complaining they can’t get to files and folders and need a fix sooner rather than later.

thanks.

Tony Scholz Replied

4/15/2021 at 1:14 PM

Employee Post

Hello Gerardo,

We are scheduled for a release today/tomorrow baring any late issues. Thank you

Tony Scholz System/Network Administrator SmarterTools Inc. www.smartertools.com

Gerardo Altman Replied

4/19/2021 at 6:36 PM

Hi All

we have installed the latest SM and the issue still exists for clients.

please advise ASAP.

""Cheers

Tony Scholz Replied

4/22/2021 at 4:27 PM

Employee Post

Hello Gerardo,

I am sorry to hear that this has not resolved your issue. In my one tests this has been resolved.

Build 7776 (Apr 16, 2021)
Fixed: Some folders are greyed out and some folders cannot be subscribed to in Thunderbird (IMAP).

Can you please submit a support ticket so that we can look over your install to see what the difference is and hopefully get this resolved for you in a timely manner.

Thank you

Tony Scholz System/Network Administrator SmarterTools Inc. www.smartertools.com

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