Mailing list drops subscribers?

Problem reported by Matt Lyons - 12/18/2014 at 9:26 PM

Resolved

I have mailiing list on SmarterMail Enterprise 13.1. The list owner is saying email addresses are being dropped from the list. Is this possible?

~ Matt

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Bruce Barnes Replied

12/19/2014 at 12:18 AM

If they bounce, they must be removed to remain compliant with antispam requirements. Evert e-mail must also provide complete company comtact info and a way to unsubscribe, without having to provide a reason to complete the task, unless the reason is an optional addition, and even if not supplied, the request is honored.

Bruce Barnes ChicagoNetTech Inc brucecnt@comcast.net Phonr: (773) 491-9019 Phone: (224) 444-0169 E-Mail and DNS Security Specialist Network Security Specialist Customer Service Portal: https://portal.chicagonettech.com Website: https://www.ChicagoNetTech.com Security Blog: http://networkbastion.blogspot.com/ Web and E-Mail Hosting, E-Mail Security and Consulting

Matt Lyons Replied

12/19/2014 at 1:21 AM

I see some subscribers with as many as 12 bounces. Is there a max number of bounces before SmarterMail removes them?

Luk Replied

12/19/2014 at 6:54 AM

Yes It is possible, you can change this. As a Domain Admin go to Domain Settings -> General Settings -> Mailing List -> Deletion Bounce Threshold (you can change value or disable it )

Bruce Barnes Replied

12/19/2014 at 8:03 AM

Yes, as Luk stated above, it is settable. The recommended setting is to REMOVE after no more than THREE BOUNCES.

Matt Lyons Replied

12/19/2014 at 12:00 PM

I was wondering where that setting was, thanks for pointing it out. "Enabled" is not checked so no subscribers should be dropped. The list owner is saying emails are being dropped.

This mailing list is a private list of under a hundred subscribers. It is used as a community forum so I understand these people want to be on the list. Too bad there isn't an unsubscribe notification.

Luk Replied

12/21/2014 at 11:53 PM

You can create mailing list unsubscribe notification via Events. Server or Domain Admin can create such events. Just use: Event Category -> Mailing List, Event type -> Mailing List Unsubscribe.

Matt Lyons Replied

12/23/2014 at 6:29 PM

Thanks for the tip on the Events! This should help me quite a bit.

Ken Cline Replied

1/19/2015 at 7:26 PM

Is the bounce count reset after a successful message delivery?

David Mroz Replied

4/20/2015 at 11:27 AM

I'm having the same issue, and I don't think it's related to bounces. Occasionally people are dropped from the list who have zero bounces. The most recent time this happened, a few people were dropped and someone who hadn't been a member in years was suddenly re-added to the list.

Furthermore, there is a discrepancy between the number of subscribers on the page that lists the mailing lists and the actual number of subscribers once you get into the edit screen where you can add/remove people.

I definitely think there is a bug in here somewhere.

Bruce Barnes Replied

4/20/2015 at 12:19 PM

Are the dropped e-mails coming from people who respond with the word REMOVE in a message? That will unsubscribe.

Does the mailing list owner have an UNSUBSCRIBE link in his contact information? That is required to be a part of EVERY list e-mail sent out -- by the US Can Spam act, the EU Can Spam act, the Canadian Can Spam act and the Australian Can Spam act.

If he's not including both his corporate contact information and the unsubscribe link then he's in violation of lots of laws and can be fined, big time.

If he's in compliance, then maybe the subscribers who don't want the messages from the list are legitimately unsubscribing.

David Mroz Replied

4/20/2015 at 5:24 PM

No, they're not unsubscribing. It's a professional group of about 30 people so it's easy to tell who should and should not be on the list. The messages aren't commercial in nature at all.

Bruce Barnes Replied

4/20/2015 at 6:14 PM

Thanks for the clarification on the list type.

If the list is only 30 people, perhaps it should be setup as an "alias." Aliases can send to multiple people, but do not have the same controls in place, IE; being able to disallow responses, or have the responses sent to the original sender, vs the alias.

If the group is setup as an alias, then anyone can respond.

Aliases can easily get out of control because when someone responds, their response will go to everyone.

One of the beauties of lists is in the fact that they can be configured for one-way communication only.

David Mroz Replied

4/20/2015 at 6:44 PM

We have a few aliases set up for other purposes and they work well, but I'm hoping to keep this one as an actual list. There are actually three lists where the first is the entire membership (~30 people) and the other two are effectively committees. If they're all configured as lists I can go to each subscriber and check the two lists that they should be on. And then there is the whole security of the list thing that you mentioned (which is huge because if anyone found out the name of the list they'd end up spamming all of our members).

Michael Muller Replied

5/28/2015 at 7:37 AM

I only have Mailing List Added, Mailing List Deleted, and Message Sent to Mailing List as options under Event Category > Mailing List. I think I read that this is only available in the Enterprise edition?

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David Mroz Replied

9/16/2015 at 12:27 PM

For what it's worth, I'm still having this issue on 14.2

Donavon McKigney Replied

9/16/2015 at 12:47 PM

We continue to have the issue as well. We have an event to notify when a mailing list is deleted because of too many bounces and rarely get a notification yet the mailing lists disappear.

Bruce Barnes Replied

9/16/2015 at 12:49 PM

Bruce Barnes Replied

9/16/2015 at 12:49 PM

Open a ticket with SmarterTools, or hire a tech to help you vet the issue, because this sounds like normal list behavior.

David Mroz Replied

9/16/2015 at 12:54 PM

How are disappearing subscribers normal behavior?

David Mroz Replied

9/16/2015 at 12:56 PM

We have the same notifications set up and we don't get the bounce/delete notices either, but randomly people disappear and randomly people are restored to the list.

Bruce Barnes Replied

9/16/2015 at 1:03 PM

If the address bounces, SmarterMail will, by default, remove it from the list. That's the law, ans SmarterMail is compliant, by default. If the reply with REMOVE, as either the subject, or body, some SmarterMail lists will remove them. Remember, even if lists are "non business" they must, under US Federal law, as well as Canadian, EU, and Australian antispam laws, be compliant with both the notification and removal requirements. The SERVER OPERATOR is on the hook for enforcement and compliance.

David Mroz Replied

9/16/2015 at 2:33 PM

You keep repeating that, but go back and re-read the thread. People with zero bounces are getting dropped and people who were manually removed YEARS ago suddenly re-appear on the list. That's not normal behavior.

Bruce Barnes Replied

9/16/2015 at 2:54 PM

The only way this will be resolved is if you open a ticket or hire a tech to look into your situation.

We have no way of knowing how your SmarterMail installation or server is configured.

We are not mind readers and have no access to see what's going on with, or running on your server.

David Mroz Replied

9/16/2015 at 3:12 PM

I realize that - which is why I never asked you to comment. There are other people who have chimed in that they're having the same issue and you keep insisting it's normal behavior and trying to educate us on international SPAM laws which has not furthered the discovery of anything useful.

If multiple people are having the same issue we can find a pattern and report back to SmarterTools what common threads we're seeing to help them troubleshoot the issue and, hopefully, release an update that fixes the issues once and for all.

Jim Vaden Replied

12/7/2015 at 2:07 PM

Here is my problem with mailing lists: it seems like if I have a user whose mailbox gets full, he/she is auto-removed from any and all mailing lists. Why? Is there a way to fix?

Curtis Kropar www.HawaiianHope.org Replied

12/8/2015 at 11:33 PM

Not sure this is the or any issue, but i noticed this with Yahoo groups a few years ago.

If a mailbox that yahoo groups was sending to had an auto responder set at all, anything (out of office, etc), yahoo groups mailing would count them as a bounce and suspend them from the mailing list. So it was not just looking at bounces, but any automatic response would drop the email account from the list. As far as i know it still does that.

Wonder if Smarter mail might have an issue like that too ?

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Employee Replied

9/26/2018 at 12:28 PM

Employee Post Marked As Resolution

Apologies about the late reply on this thread... I just came across it while reviewing other some mailing list discussions. In SmarterMail 15.7.6782, this issue was addressed. "Fixed: Some mailing list subscribers are going missing."

If anyone is still experiencing dropped or re-added subscribers, please submit a ticket to the Support Department for their direct review.

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